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Custom Sail material

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dracop
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Custom Sail material

Postby dracop » Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:15 pm

So with all the excitement over Aluula LE, Ive been thinking about all of the materials that go into a kite. The LE affects airflow but its the sail that catches the wind.

Cuben fibre sails for boats and even tents/backpacks are being mass produced at this point.

We could make kite canopy fabric. Has anyone considered simply buying cf sail fabric or Aluula fabric (if they sell it yet) and just cutting/sewing in replacement fabric panels on an existing kite?

Even if its custom/prototype, if its a kite, its KOTA allowed. A different material other than ripstop could dramatically change how much power a rider can load - especially after my trips to CPT, kites get baggy there.

I wonder if I could just order the sail material and have a shop replace out the canopy fabric.

Its interesting the marketing for cf reads stronger lighter more durable. Reminds me of the Duotone SLS moniker.

So CF was bought out by North Sails altho they are selling it to anyone via a specialized subsidiary.

A cf North Orbit?

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Re: Custom Sail material

Postby Da Yoda » Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:48 pm

dracop wrote: I wonder if I could just order the sail material and have a shop replace out the canopy fabric.

Its interesting the marketing for cf reads stronger lighter more durable. Reminds me of the Duotone SLS moniker.

So CF was bought out by North Sails altho they are selling it to anyone via a specialized subsidiary.
It looks like you can get CF fabric in bulk.
https://ripstopbytheroll.com/products/0 ... 7129640385

I've not seen Aluula available in bulk.

Duotone sells their Teijin Trinity fabric in 157x?cm sections.

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dracop
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Re: Custom Sail material

Postby dracop » Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:06 pm

Nice find!

$270 for (16m)^2 yards

That would be enough to build a 10m kite sail with material to spare!

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Re: Custom Sail material

Postby nixmatters » Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:09 am

dracop wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:15 pm

So CF was bought out by North Sails altho they are selling it to anyone via a specialized subsidiary.

A cf North Orbit?
The CF you are referring to was bought by DSM (Dyneema):
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Dyneema_Composite_Fabric

CF (now DCF) doesn't work as a canopy, has been tried and tested years ago.

If you want to match the Aluula LE, better look at CZ. You don't really need a lighter weight canopy, and CZ is available in ~55gsm.

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dracop
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Re: Custom Sail material

Postby dracop » Sun Oct 11, 2020 6:28 am

nixmatters wrote:
Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:09 am
dracop wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:15 pm

So CF was bought out by North Sails altho they are selling it to anyone via a specialized subsidiary.

A cf North Orbit?
The CF you are referring to was bought by DSM (Dyneema):
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Dyneema_Composite_Fabric

CF (now DCF) doesn't work as a canopy, has been tried and tested years ago.

If you want to match the Aluula LE, better look at CZ. You don't really need a lighter weight canopy, and CZ is available in ~55gsm.
Hmm the only example I have come across in commercial production were from Best. Looks like they tried cf for both canopy and LE with the Hellfish and then cf LEs for their Pro series of kites as well as the Extract.

They seem to have been popular in their time and the disaster with the Hellfish seems to have been design/manufacturing (blown le Seams).

Aside from weight savings the stiffer material should have been better for a canopy I would imagine.

Anyone out there still have a Hellfish? Lol

What is CZ?

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Re: Custom Sail material

Postby nixmatters » Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:06 am

CZ = Code Zero or Code 0.
Mylar laminated ripstop or tafeta with or without additional aramid or polyester reinforcement. Manufactured by DP, Contender and Challenge.

CF doesn't work for canopy as it shrinks heavily when it wrinkles (flutter, packing, etc). The shrinking doesn't happen in the seams or areas of 2 layers joined with double adhesive tape, which makes it even worse. If you're seriously thinking to give it a try, PM me and I'll try to help you.

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Re: Custom Sail material

Postby Matty V » Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:34 pm

Da Yoda wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:48 pm
dracop wrote: I wonder if I could just order the sail material and have a shop replace out the canopy fabric.

Its interesting the marketing for cf reads stronger lighter more durable. Reminds me of the Duotone SLS moniker.

So CF was bought out by North Sails altho they are selling it to anyone via a specialized subsidiary.
It looks like you can get CF fabric in bulk.
https://ripstopbytheroll.com/products/0 ... 7129640385

I've not seen Aluula available in bulk.

Duotone sells their Teijin Trinity fabric in 157x?cm sections.

Tejin manufacture and sell the material. Duotone are a customer

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Re: Custom Sail material

Postby jumptheshark » Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:01 pm

Ummmm, You guys realize that OR has been involved with developing Alula as part of a separate materials development company specifically working at better materials for but not limited to our sport specifically for the last number of years. It's NOT really as simple as simply looking around and selecting some other material and repurposing it for kites and voila, "game changer"

OR have done the work and the industry will ride on their coat tails for the next decade. They can license it or they can try and reverse engineer it, but either way their gonna pay for it.

I sincerely hope Ocean Rodeo reap the reward for their foresight and diligence.

No doubt there will be companies who feel they can do better, but time will tell with respect to durability, strength and performance who has the real deal.

Witness, Duotones latest lame marketing os their SLS stuff...... 15% lighter......... marketing rip offs, invented by N..Duotone~
Last edited by jumptheshark on Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nixmatters
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Re: Custom Sail material

Postby nixmatters » Sun Oct 11, 2020 4:10 pm

Spot on, Sharky!
But the discussion here is about the canopy cloth

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Re: Custom Sail material

Postby Da Yoda » Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:30 pm

Matty V wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:34 pm
Tejin manufacture and sell the material. Duotone are a customer
Yes! Teijin makes the Trinity 3x fabric, but it's exclusive to Duotone (for now) and I've only seen bulk fabric available from them at this point.


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