Next Slingshot UFO/Ghost Kite Generation

[Turbaani]

I have 12+9 ultra v4's and thinking of trying a smaller sized ufo. Don't know the up limit for my 9m yet, but I have been reading that people use 7m ufo for around same range I plan to use my 9m ultra, up to ~20-22kts. 800cm foil, 78kg. Also got 5m rrd wave kite.

What size of ufo would fit this gap?

[Nak]

I have 12+9 ultra v4's and thinking of trying a smaller sized ufo. Don't know the up limit for my 9m yet, but I have been reading that people use 7m ufo for around same range I plan to use my 9m ultra, up to ~20-22kts. 800cm foil, 78kg. Also got 5m rrd wave kite.

What size of ufo would fit this gap?

I'm on a 5m UFO at 18-19 mph, and on a 4m at 22 mph or so. Above 28 mph i switch to a 3m. The 7m works for me from 12 mph and up. I can't really speak to the high end of the 7M, because I've never ridden it above 18 mph--where it still worked fine. I like using a small a kite as is comfortably possible, so these are preferred winds not the full range of the kite. I weigh 84kg and ride a Slingshot 684 wing--950 cm.

[grigorib]

5m UFO for whitecaps and up 16-30 knots
7m UFO for below the whitecaps
9m UFO for 11 knots and less

210 lbs. usually riding 730 cm² freeride or 600 cm² freerace wing with 5m, 1200 cm² wing with 9m.

[noahsw]

Sorry, but I absolutely cannot confirm. For me the SST has way more lift and is way more suitable for tacking than all versions of the UFO.

What´s other people´s opinions to this?

@wavy navy - how are you liking the smaller SSTs for foiling 15-25 knots?

[grigorib]

For me 15-25 knots is a 5m size. I love both UFO 5m and the SST 5m but going to sell the SST and keep the UFO. If I rode a directional I’d keep both

[Nak]

They seem to adress that those new smaller diameter bridle lines make a difference. How about flying lines, are you guys using normal lines, or should you use thinner lines too, race lines? And line length, do they work well with shorter lines? That new SS sentry bar looks nice, but its minimum of 20m lines.

Your post piqued my interest, and then I saw Fred Hope's bar. That inspired me to put together a new bar. I used Ozone 23 M race lines, got rid of trim and ran a single tensioned line through the bar. I also eliminated the "Oh shit" loops and associated hardware. My goal was to eliminate as much weight and drag that the kite had to carry, while leaving robust safety systems in place that I had to carry. (I've never, ever, felt fatigued from carrying a bar or having a QR hooked to my harness...) I also wanted to eliminate as much resistance to bar input as possible, hence the single line through the bar. Heavy, multiple, center lines add a fair degree of resistance to bar steering input compared to a single line.

I've been using this bar for about 30 sessions now, and the difference between this bar and a standard bar is quite remarkable. Flying the UFO with one hand on the control bar is much easier. Kite response is better with less delay. The kite handles all conditions better. It's faster due to less drag on the lines, it hangs in the air better in lulls due to less weight and less drag, it handles gusts better since the gust is affecting the lines less, and the kite just feels more directly connected to me. Steering input is much improved, as less of my input is devoted towards deflecting a line under tension and more of my input goes directly to the kite. I can pinwheel the UFO easily now, something I personally have a hard time with using a standard control bar. This is a very fun alternative to down looping in light winds. I have not missed trim once, even in the Gorge where I kite. That may have a lot to do with the depower characteristics of the UFO; it may well be that I'd miss the trim with a strutted kite. I have flown a 9m and 12m Boxer with it, and I didn't miss trim with the Boxer either. That said, I have not tried this bar with any 3 strut kites, and the sessions with the Boxers were in very light wind. With the UFO though, I have been in every imaginable wind condition up to and including gusts from the mid teens up to the 50s. (mph.)

I did post about my bar in the hydrofoil forum, but people there did not receive it well. Apparently it does not conform to pre-conceived notions about what constitutes a proper custom bar. Personally, I neither need nor want to skimp on safety systems or floats. Losing those adds nothing to kite performance and I have no desire to be the subject of an accident post some day. Floats detract not a bit from kite performance, and I'd rather not lose my bar to the murky depths. Anyways, I have flown the UFO extensively with this bar, and it makes about the same difference, IMHO, as the jump from V1.1 to V2 UFO.

I think the biggest improvement in kite performance comes from the race lines, but getting rid of unnecessary weight and reducing steering resistance due to line deflection has a positive impact as well. The reduced center line deflection is probably the biggest contributor to improving one handed flying.

This is a bar that anyone can assemble from existing factory pieces and a few spliced lines. Here is the link to my bar thread: viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2414290

[haiku]

Still having fun with the previous version (V1.1 - 7 m)



Cheers
Carlo

[grigorib]

…

Simple bars are beautiful. Yet I don’t see myself ditching a trimmer.

[Nak]

Simple bars are beautiful. Yet I don’t see myself ditching a trimmer.

I thought the same thing until I tried Fred Hope's bar with a UFO. The UFO depower characteristics are perfect for ditching the trim. With most other kites I'd agree with you, but you just don't need trim with the UFO. I've got about 30 - 40 sessions on this bar, and I haven't missed the trim once. Minimizing the weight the UFO carries makes a difference in the way it flies; there's no way I'd go back.

Below the bar trim would save the flying weight, but then you'd have two lines going through the bar. Having just one thin line through the bar makes a pretty big difference as well. With no resistance to control input from the center line, you just feel so much more connected with the kite. Flying the kite one handed especially is a revelation. All of your input goes towards turning the kite, rather than some of it going to deflect the center line. That, combined with the race lines, notch the kite handling characteristics up a quantum leap. It's at least a big a difference as V1 to V2 UFO, probably more. If I had to make a choice: V1 UFO with this bar, or a V2 UFO with a standard bar--I'd take the V1 and this bar.

If you see me at Stevenson next year or Baja this winter, I'd be happy to let you try my bar. Trying a bar like this just once convinced me to immediately build my own. Try mine and see. If I'm wrong, first Margarita is on me! If you're convinced, first one is on you!

[Jyoder]

5m UFO is such a great kite! I have v1.1 and love it. I had a BRM cloud 5.5m and I find the UFO handles powered riding better at expense of slightly less drift, but still pretty good.
15-22knots on 500cm2 foil. 23m lines on ultralight kiss bar with crazy long bar throw, no trim. Can go lower and higher but that’s the sweet spot for me.