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The best way to self land 4 line kite with low V

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PullStrings
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Re: The best way to self land 4 line kite with low V

Postby PullStrings » Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:29 pm

About the video
It's good and i don't have one

Why do people insist of detaching themselves and putting the bar down
No reason to

Your eyes are off the kites for a little bit
If soft sand the wet bar gets dirty
When you get to kite you have to go back to get the bar
If it's getting dark and you take your lines off you might forget the bar on the beach
With lower front line landing the bar can get yanked / dragged forward sideways as the upper wingtip goes down
Staying fully attached while walking both lines going upwind gives you the option of no runaway kite if hells breaks loose
You have access to your quick release to kill the kite power

The guy has a 12 sqm and does not land it at maximum wind speed for that size which is about 27 knots
That's what we need to see
Need to see the sand blowing down the beach
Real life situation

if its a 10 sqm then its 30 knots
if its a 8 sqm then its 34 knots and so on

Your grip is better holding 2 lines
It could be raining or cold or both

Plus if its on its back you still have to flip it over LE down

Well that's that
Self landing is fun walking up the strings

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purdyd
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Re: The best way to self land 4 line kite with low V

Postby purdyd » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:16 pm

Why do people insist of detaching themselves and putting the bar down
That is a good point. I don’t detach the bar.

I have seen kites move around when it is gusty and I wonder if it might be better to have it on its back in that situation, I think I might give it a try when I do a tethered landing and I can be right next to the kite.

Personally I favor keeping it on the wingtip. For one reason, if it is on its back with a strut, it is resting on the canopy and not reinforced for wear like the tips.

I’ve self landed walking up both lines in some pretty heavy wind 30 knots, but not a the extreme maximum for the kite as I had a small kite.

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Re: The best way to self land 4 line kite with low V

Postby Flyboy » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:43 pm

PullStrings wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:29 pm
About the video
It's good and i don't have one

Why do people insist of detaching themselves and putting the bar down
No reason to

Your eyes are off the kites for a little bit
If soft sand the wet bar gets dirty
When you get to kite you have to go back to get the bar
If it's getting dark and you take your lines off you might forget the bar on the beach
With lower front line landing the bar can get yanked / dragged forward sideways as the upper wingtip goes down
Staying fully attached while walking both lines going upwind gives you the option of no runaway kite if hells breaks loose
You have access to your quick release to kill the kite power

The guy has a 12 sqm and does not land it at maximum wind speed for that size which is about 27 knots
That's what we need to see
Need to see the sand blowing down the beach
Real life situation

if its a 10 sqm then its 30 knots
if its a 8 sqm then its 34 knots and so on

Your grip is better holding 2 lines
It could be raining or cold or both

Plus if its on its back you still have to flip it over LE down

Well that's that
Self landing is fun walking up the strings
Are we talking about KOTA here?

Personally, with a surfboard:

11m up to 18 knots
8m up to 24 knots
6m up to 28 knots.
5m up to 34 knots

With a foil:

11m up to 12 knots
8m up to 15 knots
6m up to 18 knots and so on.

With the kite at around 11 o'clock I grab the front lines & pull causing the kite to stall & start to drop. I then pull on the upwind front line as the kite is dropping to cause the kite to turn so that it lands with the LE facing into the wind. Then I walk up to the kite holding the upwind front line. I wouldn't do that with a 10m in 30 knots though.

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edt
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Re: The best way to self land 4 line kite with low V

Postby edt » Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:06 pm

PullStrings wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:29 pm

Need to see the sand blowing down the beach
Real life situation

Agree. I think any technique is fine as long as you master it but of course every technique has a limit where you just say "Time to pull the QR". But these videos showing a technique in 10 knots are worthless. If I don't see sand blowing down the beach I quit watching. Come on guys if you want to show a self landing technique it has to be done in real life situations.

The same goes for self rescues by the way. I have seen so many self rescues where the water is perfectly calm, let's see a self rescue in real life when the water is angry.

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Re: The best way to self land 4 line kite with low V

Postby nothing2seehere » Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:21 am

You demonstrate in light conditions because people watching will copy you. You want them to try things like self landing and self rescue in light conditions to practice first.

I think asking for people to demonstrate techniques in high wind is akin to asking for personal responsibility to be waived. If you don't think a technique will work and you can't kite without other people around - its simple. Don't go out! Its up to you to do your own risk assessment. If its 30 knots you really should be looking to get help landing your kite. Just because something doesn't bite you the first time doesn't mean it won't bite another time.

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edt
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Re: The best way to self land 4 line kite with low V

Postby edt » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:07 pm

Then why are all the self rescue videos shot when it's barely blowing. You can't decide to only need a self rescue in light wind. It's easier to video in light wind even if it's not very realistic.

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Re: The best way to self land 4 line kite with low V

Postby nothing2seehere » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:20 pm

I would say light wind is realistic for self rescue - or at least it is for kiters who have weather generated wind rather than thermal wind. Probably every kiter I know has needed to pack down and self rescue because the wind has shut off and the kite has fallen out of the sky. For my area, thats significantly more a factor than equipment failure these days.

But you probably got it right with the filming. In general most people putting out videos are part of small businesses and are doing it without expecting to make money from it. Removing wind noise, getting a consistent camera angle without camera shake - its all hassle you don't need. Get a shot wrong or out of focus and you need to rig up and go out again to film it and risk any number of continuity problems. It's just not worth it. There's always going to be a situation where the clever solution isn't going to work so you reduce it to the 2 simplest options. Roll up the lines and swim in - or release the kite and swim in. What's the point in filming those options in strong winds? If you can't roll up the lines - you release the kite and phone the coast guard when you get back to shore so they don't go out unnecessarily.

For the record, Anton from Advakite did film a video where he went out to demonstrate his technique against the deathloop working in strong winds too. Ultimately the technique worked as easily as it did in light wind so it would seem that additional videos aren't always necessary

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Re: The best way to self land 4 line kite with low V

Postby PullStrings » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:39 pm

Real life situation last night at beach surfboard sesh
Onshore wind 15 kn high tide with nasty chaos shore break backwash bouncing off sand dune
Put up a 14 sqm
Made it out upwind into the 3-4ft waves
Was fun and wind picked up gradually over the hour to 20kn no big deal i'm used to it
Time to go in wind is now 23kn so i fully depower kite on the way in
Get out of the water
Put surfboard down on beach
Prepare kite positioning ideal angle on wingtip and increase kite LE curve before walking up both front lines all the way to kite
Dropped bar while staying hooked in before doing the hand over hand climb
Walked upwind gradually of kite and loose lines
When arriving real close to kite i was about 45 degrees upwind of it
Reached the LE
Put kite LE down
Detached myself and put the clean bar on top of canopy

Just another day at the beach
Self landing success
Beer time !

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Re: The best way to self land 4 line kite with low V

Postby Baptiste_FR » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:51 pm

PullStrings wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:29 pm
Why do people insist of detaching themselves and putting the bar down
No reason to
It seems very obvious to me. If you're still attached to your kite (even only to the self rescue line), with a strong gust, your kite could relaunch and you'll have to let go the line. After that, your bar can get dragged on the beach and get stuck in some rock, branch or any fix object or causing tangled lines then initiating a death loop.
Of course, the probability of this event is low, but still plausible. When you detach from the kite, it won't happen, you'll loose the kite but you'll stay alive and no wounds.

That is why when I'm alone, I always choose a spot with a wide area to self land using an anchor point.

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Re: The best way to self land 4 line kite with low V

Postby Bille » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:03 pm

PullStrings wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:39 pm
...

Just another day at the beach
Self landing success
Beer time !
Yea But :
What kind of beer ; if it was keystone light beer, then None of
that counts !! :D

Bille


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