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The best way to self land 4 line kite with low V

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Hugh2
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Re: The best way to self land 4 line kite with low V

Postby Hugh2 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:54 pm

I still think releasing to single flag out line is best approach in strong winds, assuming an open beach with no kiters around to land you, and no beach goers in the landing zone. If the kite lands on its back you can tug the line to get it to flip over. Then I disconnect from the bar (to avoid getting dragged if the kite should somehow relaunch), and walk up the single line slightly off to the side to avoid getting tangled in line. At the bar I carefully work through to the other side and continue up to the kite. I generally disconnect lines and wrap them, rinse the bar and board, then pick up kite and walk to a more sheltered location to deflate and pack it up, although most folk seem to do that on the beach, which ends up with a lot of sand in the kite.

I often kite on lakes, and there we have little room for landing and often noone to help, so we routinely dump the kite in the water and walk up the single line to it. That could work at the beach too if one was worried about a rocky shore or no room, but seems a bit more risky for the integrity of the kite, and I've never had to do that.

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Re: The best way to self land 4 line kite with low V

Postby PullStrings » Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:33 pm

Bille wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:03 pm
PullStrings wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:39 pm
...

Just another day at the beach
Self landing success
Beer time !
Yea But :
What kind of beer ; if it was keystone light beer, then None of
that counts !! :D

Bille
Fully agree
8.0 % made it count

Image
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purdyd
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Re: The best way to self land 4 line kite with low V

Postby purdyd » Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:23 pm

I still think releasing to single flag out line is best approach in strong winds,
My experience would be there is more pull from the kite when dropped to one line as the kite ends up down wind and can buck around and fly. Although usually at some point it will end up leading edge down it is not in a stable position.

If you drop to one line on the side using the top and it doesn’t stay there you end up with it downwind again and on a single line.

The idea that it will fly upside down at the side with one rear line is interesting and might come in handy at some point.

Personally I prefer the walk up two lines as I know it works.

Yes, I would prefer a an assisted landing or tethered but that is not always an option.

Heck I came back from one session and my tether had been stolen,

You should be able to land your kite on your own without those aids.

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Re: The best way to self land 4 line kite with low V

Postby PullStrings » Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:26 pm

Baptiste_FR wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:51 pm
PullStrings wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:29 pm
Why do people insist of detaching themselves and putting the bar down
No reason to
It seems very obvious to me. If you're still attached to your kite (even only to the self rescue line), with a strong gust, your kite could relaunch and you'll have to let go the line. After that, your bar can get dragged on the beach and get stuck in some rock, branch or any fix object or causing tangled lines then initiating a death loop.
Of course, the probability of this event is low, but still plausible. When you detach from the kite, it won't happen, you'll loose the kite but you'll stay alive and no wounds.

That is why when I'm alone, I always choose a spot with a wide area to self land using an anchor point.
That's cool use what works or has worked for you so far

Just chatting here from experience of walking both front lines to kite
From what i know there are only positives

1- Strong gust like you say relaunching the kite is very very unlikely when holding both front lines and back lines are loose 100% disabled

2- Now if the strong gust is accompanied by a winds shift that hits the backside of kite then it can suddenly tumbleweed roll but should not take off

3- Having the QR nearby just react/activate and kill the kite from rolling further like a runaway train endangering what is downwind

4- As a bonus the wet bar stays clean of sand when you don't detach

Thank you for posting
Stay safe

Keep in mind it is not always possible to return to anchor point in time
So it's good to have a quick plan B that you have practiced successfully

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Re: The best way to self land 4 line kite with low V

Postby happytrees » Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:27 am

Everyone here walks lines to the kite, walking slightly upwind.
I find when I'm a third to half way, slightly upwind you lose some power from the kite and you can do pretty much whatever you please.
One guy walks further upwind and flips it on to leading edge, most keep it sort of straight or lean it back say 45 degrees

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Re: The best way to self land 4 line kite with low V

Postby Herman » Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:28 am

With 5 strut kites and powered conditions I want the kite stable when I walk the lines. To me that means creating a decent amount of friction at the contact patch between kite and beach. To do this I go slightly upwind and pull the top front line a little so the kite is leaning forward, trying to fly into the beach. This keeps the kite stable.

Interestingly this is often the position you get when you first turn the kite up in a roll over launch, where a little shuffle down wind will make the kite much easier to release from the beach, which of course is why I go a little upwind to walk the lines so that the kite does not release.

If you overdo the top front line pulling the kite will release the contact point friction as it falls, this is ok if the LE luffs enough to sit the kite down but if it lifts and tumbles things can go Pete Tong in a nasty way!

Normally I tether and it is not unusual for me to get the kite bouncing around on the tether in well powered conditions as I have been to lazy to find the aforementioned position or the wind is shifty but I can usually get the kite to settle with judicious use of the top front line as I walk to or from the kite.

Hugh2
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Re: The best way to self land 4 line kite with low V

Postby Hugh2 » Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:44 pm

purdyd wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:23 pm
I still think releasing to single flag out line is best approach in strong winds,
My experience would be there is more pull from the kite when dropped to one line as the kite ends up down wind and can buck around and fly. Although usually at some point it will end up leading edge down it is not in a stable position.

If you drop to one line on the side using the top and it doesn’t stay there you end up with it downwind again and on a single line.

The idea that it will fly upside down at the side with one rear line is interesting and might come in handy at some point.

Personally I prefer the walk up two lines as I know it works.

Yes, I would prefer a an assisted landing or tethered but that is not always an option.

Heck I came back from one session and my tether had been stolen,

You should be able to land your kite on your own without those aids.
After I had two self-landings like described here go wrong, I decided I would always just ditch the kite to a single line. I've done it well over 100 times now in the past 5 years, on lakes, on deserted beaches, even in the surf. Never had a problem. The most common situation is a downwinder at Cape Town to the beach downwind of Haakgat, by which time the wind is usually howling over 30 knots and very gusty. The beach is wide open and generally deserted in these conditions. It works perfectly every time, and knowing that gives me the confidence to do these downwinders on my own. I still do normal self-landings in a wide variety of situations, but only in lower winds and preferably in a situation where I can dump the kite in a wind shadow behind a dune or something.

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Re: The best way to self land 4 line kite with low V

Postby Herman » Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:13 pm

Just finished a session on a 7.5m Kahoona in ~ 25-30knts. When landing it was probably about 28 knots. For the tether landing I decided to pin the kite properly so it didn’t bounce by walking about 3m down wind touching the kite down and walking to the tether. This angled the kite so it was trying to fly into the beach but the tension in the line was probably ok for walking up if required. Once I got to the kite it was well pinned and required a little effort to lift and then it wanted to push me into wind for, you guessed it, about 3m. It was a nice steady wind. It would have been interesting to see how long I could have left it before a shift released the kite and allowed it to bounce but I was starting to get cold.

Personally I agree with Hughs approach if the sh1t is anywhere near the fan. In which case I have the kite flying towards the ground on the edge of the window where the top front is the flag line and release just before the kite hits the ground. You used do that unhooked with a C kite and sticky Velcro qr.

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Re: The best way to self land 4 line kite with low V

Postby PullStrings » Thu Nov 05, 2020 5:20 pm

Wind was side on at 20-25 kn at beach while rigging my 10 when someone asked me to land their 12 by catching it

I saw an opportunity to coach on how to walk the lines to the kite

I walked to him an asked if he has done it before and if he would like a demonstration

He said sure i would like to see that

Said to him to depower his kite more by trimming to slack the back lines
Then said to bring kite down all the way on wingtip to the sand and let the bar out completely
Then as kite settled to walk upwind a couple meters and relax

After the kite was real stable i said to him that i will grab the two front lines low V
Once i grab the lines just stay hooked in with your bar hanging and follow me closely
By following me the steering lines became totally loose as i held on the full manageable pull of both front lines

Explained that as i walk up the front lines it is important to also move upwind of kite
This keeps the back lines away and downwind of your feet

Slowly but surely he could see how i reached hand over hand the lines all the way to his short bridles
By the time i got there i was about 45 degrees upwind of kite

When i got to both bridles i grabbed to the top bridle only and continued to the leading edge
Grabbed it then then put the 12m kite LE down
Asked to nice guy to detach now from chicken loop and lay his clean bar on top of the kite canopy

He was really happy
He said that when he is alone he uses the QR and that the bar gets all messy in the sand
Recommended that he practices a lot to start with 15 knots of wind then move up to 20 then 25
Its all about building your confidence up
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PullStrings
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Re: The best way to self land 4 line kite with low V

Postby PullStrings » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:54 pm

Thanks chalks & purdyd

Bit off the self land topic now but relevant since you want the kite very stable on the beach to walk up the lines all the way
Witnessed a lady assistant trying to "catch " a men's kite just recently

I was 100 meters downwind of them after landing my 8m in 32kn of wind and walking up the lines to the kite successfully

The men put his 7m kite at edge of window with tip on sand
Right away he sat down on beach and kept holding the bar
The kite kept flying nervously up and down forward and backward
It did that for 30 seconds before the lady moved herself to go "try to catch" the kite
It took her 3 attempts to grab the LE

It would have been a good opportunity to coach a few tips if i had been closer

Catching a kite on the way down in mid-air is commonly done
Having an assistant just grab a totally stable kite LE parked on the sand is not common
But it is better in IMO

First the rider gets the experience of stabilizing their kite into neutral motion
2nd the assistant only has to grab the LE parked

So the men should not have sat down right away when the 7m kite wingtip touched down
( i'm assuming that the kite is nearly fully depowered before bringing it down )

He should have instead " let go of the bar completely " staying hooked in and walked a few meters upwind then sit down if that's what he likes

If when he sat down the kite still bounced a bit he can slack the back lines more by pulling one foot of the depower line using both free hands
That would eliminate any steering line tension and quiet down the kite to it's maximum while on it's curved leading edge
There would be no rush for an assistant to try to catch a kite on the fly in high winds

Once the kite is grabbed walk towards the assistant while still hooked in holding the bar with one hand
Don't put the wet bar in the sand when you detach yourself.....put it on the kite canopy to keep it clean
Go get your board...then transfer bar on the board

So if someone offers to "catch your kite" try this and say please let me practice stabilizing it on the beach first then you can grab it
That way you gain some experience in case no one is there and you want to try walking the lines
Plus the assistant might like to see your technique and pass it on to an other kiter
And so on and so on


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