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What determines a bar's "feel"?

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Havre
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What determines a bar's "feel"?

Postby Havre » Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:48 am

It just triggered my curiosity in the Core bar-thread.

What is it one means when you hear statements like "it feels better/worse"?

It's an honest question from someone that has kited for some years now, but who isn't by any means an expert.

I mainly only use one bar for all my kites and have been doing so for years. Occasionally I will borrow a kite with another setup and I will notice differences, but I am not always sure what it is that I'm noticing. Is it the kite or the bar? Or line length?

The only thing I could imagine I could notice in terms of "feel" with a different bar on the same kite would be the width, grip, how it slides and line length (if that is part of the "bar"). I have tried bars that vary a lot in weight, but out on the water I do not notice that.
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zlatko23 (Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:06 am) • Aberdovy kiter (Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:04 pm)
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Re: What determines a bar's "feel"?

Postby cor » Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:11 am

It´s in the name. "Feel" is something very subjective, so everyone feels a bar/kite differently. You can do literally nothing with such a statement, unless it´s being made with a comparison to a kite/bar you have flown on your own.

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Re: What determines a bar's "feel"?

Postby MattyM » Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:30 am

Length of bar, weight, shape of grip. But most 'feel' comes from the kite's characteristics, transferred through the steering lines.

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Re: What determines a bar's "feel"?

Postby Kerplow » Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:19 pm

Personally, for me, bar fell is two things - bar pressure and if I can feel position of my kite via bar :)

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Re: What determines a bar's "feel"?

Postby downunder » Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:23 pm

I think the best bar feel is the bar which made by yourself.

Many riders on my local are doing just that. Best feel ever.

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Re: What determines a bar's "feel"?

Postby TheRussian » Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:44 pm

This goes back to a comment made by Sam (SS) - yes,,, opening myself for accusations of extreme naivety, as clearly Sam is in the pay of the Kiting Main Stream Media/Industrial/Deep State/Complex - those subscribing to this can look away!

After Sam's first time using the new SS bar he came in and mentioned he was surprised by how light it made the kite feel, i.e. using the same kite & just using the new bar & line set - he said it felt like there was a difference/increase in the performance of the kite.

The first time I used the Reedin bar (which appears to be the same as the SS), the kite did feel lighter & more responsive, but I put this down to the overall package - so Sam's comments & ability to do a direct comparison, does suggest that a lighter bar does make a difference.

Tin foil hats at the ready !

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Re: What determines a bar's "feel"?

Postby Havre » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:00 pm

TheRussian wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:44 pm
This goes back to a comment made by Sam (SS) - yes,,, opening myself for accusations of extreme naivety, as clearly Sam is in the pay of the Kiting Main Stream Media/Industrial/Deep State/Complex - those subscribing to this can look away!

After Sam's first time using the new SS bar he came in and mentioned he was surprised by how light it made the kite feel, i.e. using the same kite & just using the new bar & line set - he said it felt like there was a difference/increase in the performance of the kite.

The first time I used the Reedin bar (which appears to be the same as the SS), the kite did feel lighter & more responsive, but I put this down to the overall package - so Sam's comments & ability to do a direct comparison, does suggest that a lighter bar does make a difference.

Tin foil hats at the ready !
Thanks. Certainly not my intention to now say how "stupid" that comment then is. But I do wonder if we are talking about a placebo effect here?

I'm quite active riding road bikes. Do some racing etc. Obviously with bikes you can kind of measure some of the performance and it is funny how someone will say that something "feels faster" or whatever, but then testing it either through riding with power meters, wind tunnels or whatever you often aren't able to pick up any difference at all. Certainly nothing that anyone would be able to "feel" riding it. Not to say it is the same with bars. I am genuinely curious, but interesting how even cyclists I know know the theory will still fall into the trap of saying that something "feels fast" when they know there is no measurable difference in performance (for bikes the feeling usually follows the price tag). Would stiffness be any different across? And would it matter? Contact point meaning how the lines are connected and/or bend in the "joint" when moving the bar?

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Re: What determines a bar's "feel"?

Postby evan » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:33 pm

Keeping all parameters like line length, bar width, split height and depower cord length the same these impact the performance and feel the most:

- Line thickness /drag
- line Stiffness / elasticity
- size and shape of the bar hole
- material of the bar hole and depower cord
- weight of the bar stick and distribution of the weight.

Having a light bar with big center hole, no friction between the bar and depower cord plus thin and non elastic lines make a huge difference in the feeling you have with the kite. Way more responsive and precise compared to a heavy bar that you can't move when turning with elastic and thick lines.

I personally can't go back to the last category, just feels wrong and sluggish.

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Re: What determines a bar's "feel"?

Postby downunder » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:37 pm

Lol

The main diff is the line length, type and thickness. As Evan said.

Everything else is superficial in my books. The center hole does mater only with thick rope.

Here is a big question:

- can you ride blind? For ie 30-60 secs?

If you can, that will answer the feel of the bar and the feel of being in the elements.
Last edited by downunder on Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: What determines a bar's "feel"?

Postby Herman » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:38 pm

It is nice if it light, good grip, sensible colours, ergonomic and effective trim etcetc, But for me the most important thing is that it does not interfere with the feel of the kite.

No auto swivel, big enough dug out so that it does not grip the centre lines when cranked, low friction at the dugout and very little difference between stiction and friction. Swivel at qr. If these are ok I can put up with most things.

(Although I don’t like covered centre lines or complex mechanisms. I like to be able to repair as much as possible with basic chandeliery. Should be easy to inspect!)


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