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Stopping death loop when can't reach a single line

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edt
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Re: Stopping death loop when can't reach a single line

Postby edt » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:41 pm

Full release and swim in. That line pulling stuff is for light wind only. The kite will be waiting for you when you get to shore. Lots of kiters when faced with the choice of their bodies or their kites choose their kites. It's cheaper to sew a kite than sew a body. Full release and swim in.
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Re: Stopping death loop when can't reach a single line

Postby andylc » Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:52 pm

It can't be good to keep a kite death looping all the way into shore. I have only had a death loop once, when a line came off, but releasing onto safety sorted it out. Your post doesn't seem to address why it was still death looping after safety was activated - this should not happen with a broken bridle. Perhaps as you said yourself you should have ejected sooner. I don't think trying to grab a line and stop the looping is a sensible option if you're in strong wind.

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Re: Stopping death loop when can't reach a single line

Postby TheRussian » Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:06 pm

edt wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:41 pm
Full release and swim in.
+1 :thumb:

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Re: Stopping death loop when can't reach a single line

Postby Herman » Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:21 pm

If a kite breaks to some sort of asymmetry where it is pivot looping I would expect that you would have only a few seconds to flag before there would be too much binding from the line twists to expect a normal flag. Again a difficult decision to make if you are a long way offshore but sometimes it is better to bite the bullet early. Once this opportunity had been missed I would have stuck with it being ready for a complete release when I was close to shore or when things were getting out of hand. Easy to say with hindsight, also he made it ashore to meet a nice lady so difficult to say not flagging immediately was the wrong choice! I loved Szert’s post because it was a well described scenario that gets you thinking which is probably only second best to actually experiencing it. If he had released in the shallows he might have got a date out of it.

PS The binding caused by the twists also means that if you are going for the pull a slack rear line (or any other line) method you should go for it straight away. As an aside, if your lines have been badly twisted it might be a good time to combine a proof test and line length check.
Last edited by Herman on Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Stopping death loop when can't reach a single line

Postby Topaz » Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:42 pm

A fully released kite in 20+ knots is harmless as long as the bar doesn't get stuck into anything.
The moment the bar catches anything, like a rock, a chair, or someone's leg, then the looping will very probably start again being a real danger for anyone in its path.

If there is a waves breaking though, a full released kite will most likely end up flat on the shore. The lines will still be a danger for non kiters in shallow water.

I would say think twice before fully release, but in those circumstances, there is usually no time to think and we usually react by fear.

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Re: Stopping death loop when can't reach a single line

Postby Erinhdisc » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:15 am

This video shows an alternative to ditching your kite in a deathloop situation and in very strong winds.

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Re: Stopping death loop when can't reach a single line

Postby Kamikuza » Sat Nov 14, 2020 1:18 am

Single front line safety is for the fashion victims. It's a shit design cos when that line breaks you're up the creek.

Oh Shit handles or using a rear line only works if you're one of these numpties who rides with under inflated kites; properly inflated kites just propellor in the wind.

Need an Oh Shit handle on the other front line, or a fifth line, be it a full or mini.

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Re: Stopping death loop when can't reach a single line

Postby malotricks » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:42 pm

Death loops happen often if a line is blocked or breaks

what i do is :
1) sheet out the bar without releasing the chicken loop or the safety leash to reduce pressure on all lines therefore power.
2) check quickly the bar to see if one line is blocked. if it is case i try to make it clear to stop the loop.
3) if the location causing the loop is not reachable or do not see it, i try to apply Anton Chernyshov's method ie I take the rear line opposite to the direction to which the kite is looping to do the opposite action and stop the loop
4) if anything above is possible or i am reaching in a dangerous situation, i release the chicken loop and if needed the safety line. Not that it is possible only if you plug your leash in the front side of your harness contrary to what many riders do which is plugging it on the rear side of the harness (only useful for unhooking and very dangerous in case of deathloop because you cannot reach the safety leash to release it : you can be drowned)

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Re: Stopping death loop when can't reach a single line

Postby br44 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:25 pm

Stopping the death loop?

How about not starting it in the first place?

The death loop is a “feature” of inflatable kites. I’ve heard of plenty of cases on LEIs, but nearly none on foils. Which doesn’t mean they cannot happen, but if they do, they are (much) less serious. And some foil kite designs cannot death loop on water, by definition.

Another option is to avoid getting overpowered. Riding strapless or hydrofoil means reduced loads on smaller kites, thus lower chances of things breaking. And if something breaks then a smaller kite will be easier to handle, and cheaper to sacrifice.

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Re: Stopping death loop when can't reach a single line

Postby longwhitecloud » Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:15 pm

br44 wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:25 pm
Stopping the death loop?

How about not starting it in the first place?

The death loop is a “feature” of inflatable kites. I’ve heard of plenty of cases on LEIs, but nearly none on foils. Which doesn’t mean they cannot happen, but if they do, they are (much) less serious. And some foil kite designs cannot death loop on water, by definition.

Another option is to avoid getting overpowered. Riding strapless or hydrofoil means reduced loads on smaller kites, thus lower chances of things breaking. And if something breaks then a smaller kite will be easier to handle, and cheaper to sacrifice.
I wouldnt go that far but i would agree that it is a feature of inflato bridled kites where it is possible that the bridles can wrap the wing tips or catch on a kites feature ( eg inflation valve)sending it into a death loop... even if the kite is not pumped hard and can deform to allow this during a crash for example.

This is a design feature that imo has not taken serious enough by kite brands.


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