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3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

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tautologies
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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby tautologies » Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:38 am

Hello fellow big boys / girls.
The number of struts is primarily not what matters. It is much more the shape of the kite, and how it holds the shape. What you will find is that in general 5 strut kites are usually higher AR. You will normally gain some hangtime with them, but height should be the same. These are generalities.
One advantage for a higher AR, in general is they do gain speed in high winds and that is key to going high and in many cases are easy to control....but assuming the same speeds a three strut kite will go as high.
Note that for your weight...you do not need a 5 strut specifically you just need a lot more wind than our fellow lightweights. So go out pretty lit and get your 4m barrier broken.
My 3 strut pivot goes really really high (for me). I can't say what height, but definitely way high enough.
I can't say for the RPM, but the pivot, in lit conditions, and off a decent kicker gives my core a workout. Actually the same in flat waters hehe.

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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby Kamikuza » Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:57 am

tautologies wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:38 am
Hello fellow big boys / girls.
The number of struts is primarily not what matters. It is much more the shape of the kite, and how it holds the shape.
Mmm...

The layout of the bridle on the LE matters more than the number of struts or shape. The further the attachment points are away from the corner of the leading edge, the more likely it is to buckle there.

I rate bridle layout behind pumping the ever-loving hell out of the kite, which is second to not whaling away on the bar like someone attempting a world record for number of chin-ups per minute.

Example: no matter how much I pump up the SB -- and I pump it really hard -- if I sheet right out then sheet in hard like I would with my Crossbows, then the LE buckles between the most-tipward front bridle attachment point and the real line pig tail.

Best results are obtained by using the bar less and with more finesse. I've found it even works on 3-strut and less kites...
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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby Kamikuza » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:00 am

Havre wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:34 am
I'm not going to say that there isn't a 3 strut kite out there that works for a heavy rider boosting
I'm pretty impressed with the Drifters for boosting... They suffer with stability when the wind really picks up though.

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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby Blackened » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:28 am

Kamikuza wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:57 am

The layout of the bridle on the LE matters more than the number of struts or shape. The further the attachment points are away from the corner of the leading edge, the more likely it is to buckle there.

I rate bridle layout behind pumping the ever-loving hell out of the kite, which is second to not whaling away on the bar like someone attempting a world record for number of chin-ups per minute.
I hadn't thought of this. I suspect you're right for the most part. My Evos (2018/2019s) used to fold at the attachment point - so much so it creased and blewout bladders on two different kites. This was pumping to 7psi or "slightly bendable" for one kite and 8psi or "barely bendable" on the 2nd. The 3rd Evo was pumped to "solid" and that held it's shape pretty well in the vast majority of situations. It showed still showed some wear at the attachment points. However, I do feel the 5-strut kites I've flown over my time had better canopy stability and overall better performance when riding overpowered.

As for whaling on the bar, I often muscle the kite around the window because I ride overpowered whenever possible. Do I need to muscle it around? Probably not as much as I do, but it gets me out of situations or kite positions I don't want to be in. Surprisingly how often a good hard loop works to save a bad landing or get yourself out of traffic.

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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby BillyGoatGruff » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:48 am

If kites are buckling it's most likely due to lack of air pressure (most kites now need around 10psi) and being very flat in design, this flatness causes rapid changes in the angle of attack and canopy flutter. Buy a "C" kite like the Torch, or Vegas, and you will never suffer this issue again. The Naish Torch is still up there with the biggest boosters out there.

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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby Havre » Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:07 am

Why do anyone make kites with 5 struts?

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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby NotsoShort » Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:28 am

I good hearing on all your views guys

I do watch a lot videos on how to jump. I suppose the majority out there are for bow/delta kite shapes. The technique would be different to jumping with the RPM (open c shape) Watching the series of Woo videos on how to jump higher, they did point this out that the technique is dependent on shape of kite. Saying with a more c shaped kite you have to be more aggressive steering the kite up. May be I have been watch too many videos on how to jump on bow kites. 🤔

Watching Sam light how to jump he dies not use the RPM, but a Raptor .

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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby Havre » Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:42 am

Somewhat correct I would say. If you are really good I believe that to be true, but for the average rider I'm not sure how much they would adjust to the type of kite.

And I'm not sure if I completely buy this "technique" argument either. I think that works both ways. I learned a lot about my Enduros by riding a Rebel (borrowing it). I also understand the Zephyr better after having tested the Rebel.

I can see the point having something like a Rebel might make you "lazy" in terms of honing your technical ability. But I would say for 99% of people jumping they would have more fun on a Rebel type kite than more C-Shape. And I believe it is even more so for heavier riders.

On here it is probably a lot lower than 99% though - just because the ratio good vs. average riders are probably a lot more tilted towards good than what you see in the real world. One of the local spots here is slightly tricky which means there are hardly any beginners riding there - still there are only a few that go above 7-8 meters.

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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby bigtone667 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:03 am

Havre wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:07 am
Why do anyone make kites with 5 struts?
Duotone Rebel is a cracking for boosting and hang time. North Dyno was as well. Cabrinha Switchblade was good.

I was struggling to get over 5m and a friend recommended a Rebel. First day I took it out I hit 6m. I then watched a tutorial on jumping and started concentrating on technique. I have now managed a number of jumps over 10m.

I will never go back to a 3 strut kite at 105kg.

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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby Havre » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:19 am

bigtone667 wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:03 am
Havre wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:07 am
Why do anyone make kites with 5 struts?
Duotone Rebel is a cracking for boosting and hang time. North Dyno was as well. Cabrinha Switchblade was good.

I was struggling to get over 5m and a friend recommended a Rebel. First day I took it out I hit 6m. I then watched a tutorial on jumping and started concentrating on technique. I have now managed a number of jumps over 10m.

I will never go back to a 3 strut kite at 105kg.
The argument in this thread seems to be that it is the shape and not the struts that matter. If so why would anyone design a kite with 5 struts?


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