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3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

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TheRussian
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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby TheRussian » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:38 am

3 struts are great - & I really liked my pivots & now reedins - they boost & can waveride - but back to back (for me) a 5 strut seems effortless, as they hold more wind, i.e. you can go out (in control) on a bigger kite with 5 struts, whereas 3 struts requires far more technique/hard edging in properly lit conditions. I would struggle to ride comfortably on a 10m 3 strut in 35knots +, but can do this easily (i.e. without much depower) on a 5 strut - & in the range 8 to 10m (kites), the more powered you are, the higher you go. For the ultimate - get a 5 strut that handles like a 3 strut - my Orbit 2s are ordered!

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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby leeuwen » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:32 pm

Havre wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:19 am
The argument in this thread seems to be that it is the shape and not the struts that matter. If so why would anyone design a kite with 5 struts?
They are required to support the shape of the kite.
If you want to make a high aspect kites (very wide not tall) you need them for support.
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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby Kamikuza » Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:29 pm

BillyGoatGruff wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:48 am
If kites are buckling it's most likely due to lack of air pressure (most kites now need around 10psi) and being very flat in design, this flatness causes rapid changes in the angle of attack and canopy flutter. Buy a "C" kite like the Torch, or Vegas, and you will never suffer this issue again. The Naish Torch is still up there with the biggest boosters out there.
I can buckle my SB no matter how much I pump them up. I still believe that bridle design and sheet in technique matters more.

I've also moved the rear connection points to the "B" setting or whatever they call the loop away from the tip. That makes life a lot easier...

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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby Kamikuza » Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:35 pm

Blackened wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:28 am
[..] However, I do feel the 5-strut kites I've flown over my time had better canopy stability and overall better performance when riding overpowered.

As for whaling on the bar, I often muscle the kite around the window because I ride overpowered whenever possible. Do I need to muscle it around? Probably not as much as I do, but it gets me out of situations or kite positions I don't want to be in. Surprisingly how often a good hard loop works to save a bad landing or get yourself out of traffic.
Stability when over-powered is better with more struts.

By whaling on the bar, I meant more the "sheet-right-out-then-whip-it-in-as-fast-as-possible" technique.

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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby tautologies » Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:27 pm

Havre wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:07 am
Why do anyone make kites with 5 struts?
To support the canopy. You can put 5 struts on lower aspect kites, so the number of struts is not the key, but the shape of the kite and bridle it has. Obviously, there are more parameters...but as a general rule...a high AR kite usually needs more struts for freestyle riding. If you lower the number of struts I think it will impact performance in the upper part of wind range unless all you want is to go upwind at a high angle.
Like the old north designers would be a shit ton of battens and struts on kites that really did not need it to eliminate flutter almost completely. However, if you take that too far you get a heavy kite that is much slower than it has to be. IMO. I am fine getting some resistance here, but my old evo was a dog. :D

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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby Matteo V » Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:00 pm

tautologies wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:27 pm
Havre wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:07 am
Why do anyone make kites with 5 struts?
To support the canopy. You can put 5 struts on lower aspect kites, so the number of struts is not the key, but the shape of the kite and bridle it has. Obviously, there are more parameters...but as a general rule...a high AR kite usually needs more struts for freestyle riding. If you lower the number of struts I think it will impact performance in the upper part of wind range unless all you want is to go upwind at a high angle.
Like the old north designers would be a shit ton of battens and struts on kites that really did not need it to eliminate flutter almost completely. However, if you take that too far you get a heavy kite that is much slower than it has to be. IMO. I am fine getting some resistance here, but my old evo was a dog. :D
5 strut kites are made because a kite with out a center strut sucks - though this is mostly on the light wind relaunch. 1, 3, or 5 struts are ideal for relaunch. 0, 2 and 4 strut kites can sit on their back, and actually be stabilised in this position since there is no "center of canopy" support to tip the kite one way or another.

But if you have ever had struts in different locations go out on you, you likely know that some struts are essential on certain kites. Other kites have struts in one or more locations that you can barely feel if they completely deflate.

But as stated above, the number of "needed" struts depends on canopy, LE, and bridle design.


Oh, and I should note that my inflatable kites are pretty much all 4 strut. I really wish they were 3 struts.

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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby bigtone667 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:20 pm

Havre wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:19 am
bigtone667 wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:03 am
Havre wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:07 am
Why do anyone make kites with 5 struts?
Duotone Rebel is a cracking for boosting and hang time. North Dyno was as well. Cabrinha Switchblade was good.

I was struggling to get over 5m and a friend recommended a Rebel. First day I took it out I hit 6m. I then watched a tutorial on jumping and started concentrating on technique. I have now managed a number of jumps over 10m.

I will never go back to a 3 strut kite at 105kg.
The argument in this thread seems to be that it is the shape and not the struts that matter. If so why would anyone design a kite with 5 struts?
The additional struts strengthen the frame of the kite better, and fuller figured individuals need that.

The shape gives you different behaviours. From memory, the Rebel was designed to be a race kite (high aspect) but foil kites killed the rebel/edge/dyno. But it just happens to be an excellent heavy rider kite and an excellent boosting kite.
Shame they stop making an 18m version.

I think struts matter more than shape if you are boosting for a heavy rider.

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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby NotsoShort » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:03 pm

What type of conditions do you guys ride in, Here in the Uk is mostly gusty on strong days. My heights can vary massively and I end up looking for stronger gusts to boost on .

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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby Matteo V » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:57 pm

bigtone667 wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:20 pm
The additional struts strengthen the frame of the kite better, and fuller figured individuals need that.

The shape gives you different behaviours...........

.....I think struts matter more than shape if you are boosting for a heavy rider.
Are you saying kite size does not just scale with weight???


And to put it plainly, there are strutless kites you could put struts on, but struts are obviously not needed on them.

But there are kites with struts that you could not use at all if you took the all the struts off of (or occasionally key struts only).

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Re: 3 or 5 strut for bigger riders

Postby bigtone667 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:53 am

Matteo V wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:57 pm
bigtone667 wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:20 pm
The additional struts strengthen the frame of the kite better, and fuller figured individuals need that.

The shape gives you different behaviours...........

.....I think struts matter more than shape if you are boosting for a heavy rider.
Are you saying kite size does not just scale with weight???


And to put it plainly, there are strutless kites you could put struts on, but struts are obviously not needed on them.

But there are kites with struts that you could not use at all if you took the all the struts off of (or occasionally key struts only).
Funnily enough, I fly Clouds for foiling and surfing and I fly rebels for boosting.

Generally, big guys will fly a larger kite than small guys for the same wind conditions. The exception being foiling, the kite sizes between different body weights is much closer for the same wind.

But there are so many variables..... kite weight, leading edge size, high/low aspect ratios, line lengths.....

I don't boost with Clouds, the kite shape does support my weight. I don't foil with Rebels cause Clouds better suit the style I like.


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