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Need help with landing jumps (video)

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Hugh2
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Re: Need help with landing jumps (video)

Postby Hugh2 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:53 pm

Indulang wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:19 pm
Hugh2 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:22 am
First, you can land smoothly with a 5m, even from height and without doing loops. You just need to do a quick figure eight. That’s what I do in Cape Town when it blows above 30 knots and I have to go down to my 5.5m.
When exactly do you do this figure 8?
Hugh2 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:22 am
Second, I don’t think it reasonable to expect him to ride a 9m in 30 knots, I ride 7m for 25-30 knots and the landings are sweet. Sure the pros and big guys can handle 9m in 30 knots like the KOTA, but not me and definitely not a relative newbie to jumping.
Yeah, I'm 61-62kg and once tried an 8m on a 30kt day and it was totally out of control. And the worst part was trying to self land by walking the power lines. In Taiwan, we have extremely consistent and strong winds Oct-Mar, with 90% of the days blowing 25-40kts
Indulang, the figure of eight is as you start coming down. It is roughly the equivalent of a heli-loop, but less risky. But you have to do it really quickly, which is only possible with a small fast turning kite. The idea is to generate extra lift from the kite beyond the parachute effect, which is very small for a 5m, by generating apparent wind in the kite. Followed by sending the kite forward about two meters from the water and pulling in the bar one meter from the water for a soft, sweet, tail landing heading downwind. And then immediately carve onto heels to stop the lines from going slack and your kite crashing in front of you!
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Philicious
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Re: Need help with landing jumps (video)

Postby Philicious » Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:24 pm

Indulang wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:19 pm
When exactly do you do this figure 8?
Simply said it means steering the kite from half past eleven to half past noon and back etc.
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Indulang (Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:00 am)
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1234567Simon
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Re: Need help with landing jumps (video)

Postby 1234567Simon » Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:47 pm

Yes ! More space between left and right leg!
Wider stance = more control , more possible edging.


How to pop


Small jumps
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Herman
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Re: Need help with landing jumps (video)

Postby Herman » Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:11 pm

Trouble with popping:

Don’t over think the popping at this stage when you are jumping in strong wind, what is important is to kill the forward speed with a hard carve into wind to make things safer. At your stage you are unlikely to have built the awareness needed to time the stomp etc. Just concentrate on carving into wind as you send.

To practice the popping element just ride with the kite left at a little higher than 45deg on a beam reach, carve hard away then let the tension built up in your lines pull you up straight and slide the board back to a beam reach. Next on the beam reach with kite left the same, flatten the board and then stomp the tail while de weighting your front foot for a little Ollie. Land flat with a little more weight on the tail. Now put the two together and you are popping! As ever start with lighter wind and build if possible. If strong wind build the strength of carve and stomp as you get the feel. Repeat a thousand times......
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Indulang
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Re: Need help with landing jumps (video)

Postby Indulang » Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:59 am

Thanks, Hugh2. I'll keep this in mind when I get back to jumping with 5m

Simon, I also love the tutorials from Kitesurf College but his beginner jump tutorial doesn't address the complications with smaller kites and strong winds. In fact, I watched his tutorial before my first session attempting small jumps and was surprised why my experience in the water was totally different from what was in that video. I guess it's more suitable for jumps in light winds with big kites.

Thanks Herman! I can't wait to get back in the water to practice popping. Btw, I have no idea what some of the terms like Pete tong, beam reach, bunny hops, bum swings, etc.. mean :D. Insider kite lingo??

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Re: Need help with landing jumps (video)

Postby Herman » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:11 am

Pete Tong.........going wrong

Bunny Hops........a small hop done before a big jump to bear away for speed, lift weight up then drive the weight down for extra hard edging during preload (send) to load tension before big air jump. Also moves wind window!

Bum Swing....just my name for a similar Manoeuvre tô the bunny hop where you use more hip movement and don’t leave the water.

Beam Reach......Sailing term...ride at 90deg to wind, bear away to Broad Reach, bear away more to Run (down wind)......OR.....harden up to a Close Reach, harden up some more to Close Hauled (upwind).

PS Reaching just means riding/sailing across the wind. Not going much up or down wind.
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deniska
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Re: Need help with landing jumps (video)

Postby deniska » Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:00 pm

Hugh2 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:53 pm

Indulang, the figure of eight is as you start coming down. It is roughly the equivalent of a heli-loop, but less risky. But you have to do it really quickly, which is only possible with a small fast turning kite.
It works for smaller jumps but for everything over 10-12m you get pendulum effect and fly infront of the kite..
The only way to fix it and soft land is to heli-loop..
this (no loop jump) was on 7m and resulted in a butt-check/ride away
same technique on 5m would probably require kicking off the board not to damage knees..
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Herman
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Re: Need help with landing jumps (video)

Postby Herman » Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:06 pm

That’s an interesting post from deniska. It certainly illustrates the likely way the op will give his Crown Jewels another slap once he has perfected his take off and is getting more height. The way I would describe it is by saying the rider jumps then swings under the kite. This puts the kite upwind of the rider and out of the wind window so makes it unresponsive. The only reason it stays in the air is the downward velocity of the rider, usually, once the rider hits the water the kite will Hindenburg and fall out of the sky, A kite Hindenburging in 30knts sends chills down the spine and can be dangerous.

Once you have swung under the kite deniska is probably correct to say that the only way to retrieve it is a downloopi/heliloop. However, having said that if you move the kite early enough with double movements you should be able to keep the kite in front of you. Have a look at big aerial transitions without loops, these are best done imho by keeping the kite in front of you. Hence my recommendation to learn aerial transition before jumping in 30 knots.

Imho I would recommend that the op considers double movements before going for heliloop. At the op current stage maybe the take away is get the kite moving and don’t just swing under the kite OR, more importantly, jump small in 30 knots until you have learnt to jump with bigger kites where you have more of a parachute if you swing under the kite. Small kites drop you harder.

PS Reducing the tendancy to swing under the kite is also another reason why a controlled more vertical take off is important particularly at the stage where the jumper has limited awareness of jumping kite control imho!!
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Indulang
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Re: Need help with landing jumps (video)

Postby Indulang » Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:52 pm

this (no loop jump) was on 7m and resulted in a butt-check/ride away
same technique on 5m would probably require kicking off the board not to damage knees..
Interesting video. That looks like a 8-10m jump and he didn't move the kite much either. So I'm wondering why he didn't freefall as hard as I did. Was is just because a 7m kite is a bigger parachute and his takeoff is more vertical?

Me and my crown jewels had enough of experimenting jumping with my 5m lol. I'll stick to the bigger kites till I can land better
Imho I would recommend that the op considers double movements before going for heliloop. At the op current stage maybe the take away is get the kite moving and don’t just swing under the kite OR, more importantly, jump small in 30 knots until you have learnt to jump with bigger kites where you have more of a parachute if you swing under the kite. Small kites drop you harder.
Do you mean moving the kite between 11:30 and 12:30 by double movements? From what I remember now, I felt like didnt have enough time to make any real movements on my 2-3sec jumps. Can I make these movements on the way up or only the way down?

Herman
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Re: Need help with landing jumps (video)

Postby Herman » Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:58 pm

I think your analysis is correct, the reason you hit hard is your take offs were too horizontal with the kite pulling you forward. Therefore you had forward speed and the swing to make your landings fast. I think you then understandably, pulled your legs underneath you to brace for impact on the edge instead of kissing the water with a tail fist landing lol.

Double movement. You have been given contrasting advice in this thread regarding the decent. Somebody suggested just keeping the bar sheeted in and the kite above you. This will work for a suitably trimmed big kite. ( Although you will just plop into the water rather than ride out). It will even work for a small appropriately trimmed kite but the decent will be faster, therefore restrict this approach to small jumps with small kites. Importantly, small kites have a smaller sheeting range and are much more likely to backstall and drop you another risk with just keeping the bar sheeted in with small kites. Hence my recommendation for small kites is to sheet out at the apex so it will fly through the sweet spot when you redirect rather than sit above you stalled. Once you get more time and awareness not only do you sheet out you also move the kite to the back of the window then fly it forward to get more time of the kite pulling vertically as you land. Often this is referred to as the double movement. The ideal timing is for the kite to be flying through the sweet spot~11 as you touch down with the tail.

At your stage for small high wind jumps my recommendation would be a small send checked a little behind Z, sheet out and redirect - that is all you will have time for. As you gain control and start to go bigger think about doing the double movement as this will also help keep the kite in front of you rather than swinging underneath it. Also useful for aerial transition with bigger kites. [ When I say keep the kite in front of you this does not mean getting it low in front of you it is just means making sure it does not go over your head upwind and out of the wind window. ]
Last edited by Herman on Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.


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