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Need help with landing jumps (video)

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Herman
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Re: Need help with landing jumps (video)

Postby Herman » Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:25 pm

Sigh. My ineptitude with this tablet has just led me to delete a post which quoted myself. I think it was Einstein who said that insanity was repeating the same thing and expecting different results. My tablet is making me insane. Please ignore. Thankfully it is going to be windy tomorrow!! Anybody know how you delete a whole post??

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Re: Need help with landing jumps (video)

Postby deniska » Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:11 pm

Herman wrote:
Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:06 pm
Once you have swung under the kite deniska is probably correct to say that the only way to retrieve it is a downloopi/heliloop. However, having said that if you move the kite early enough with double movements you should be able to keep the kite in front of you. Have a look at big aerial transitions without loops, these are best done imho by keeping the kite in front of you. Hence my recommendation to learn aerial transition before jumping in 30 knots.
not sure if you can keep the kite in front of you on any really big jump...
you start a jump with the kite pulling you up and forward at some angle (never 90degrees)
then a few seconds in, the kite loses the pull as it catches up to the wind speed, and you swing under..
You can mitigate it to some degree by moving the kite, sheeting in, etc but you just buying yourself some time..
it's less of a problem if you don't go "big" (i.e. you land before you fly under) or use bigger sizes going overpowered (assuming you can still edge while sending (even if you fly under a bit, there is still significant pull from the kite).. but essentially downloop is the only good fix for those scenarios..
Advice to OP, as I mention before, try rigging a size bigger (if you can hold it depowered on a beach at 45deg w/o sliding you are good), use smaller board and big fins - they should help to mitigate some of the shortcoming with your current technique. Go slow with kite at 10, send the kite to 1 concentrating on edging, then redirect back to 10.. do small hops and then increase the amplitude once you start consistently land small ones..
Also, can't see what kite you use.. make sure you get one of the gliders (Edge, XR, Apollo, etc) - they will make your life easier..
good luck..

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Re: Need help with landing jumps (video)

Postby Herman » Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:19 pm

not sure if you can keep the kite in front of you on any really big jump...
Dimitri's jumps in his how to aerial transition looked pretty big to me but if you are talking KOTA style max preload big air......................... This, however, is probably a moot point for the op at present but his brave approach probably means he will be able to find out for himself in a few years or months time.

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Re: Need help with landing jumps (video)

Postby Toby » Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:45 pm

Indulang wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:26 pm
Thanks, Toby and everyone else for your feedback.

I quickly skimmed through the replies and went out the next day with the same 5m kite & 30kt wind. Towards the end of that session, I was landing smaller jumps half the time but still crashing the ones where I had more than 2.5 sec airtime. Here are two of my landings and crashes (0.5x speed)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tjlyizxq0ut7s ... d.mp4?dl=0

I watched your great video Toby and have more questions than answers :-D

1) Why is popping helpful for me? Wouldn't popping make my jumps even higher and potentially cause even harder landings if I can't even manage my landings at the current heights?

2) You mentioned it's very dangerous when the kite starts to pull forward when you're up in the air and recommend sheeting out the bar and then sheeting back in (just before landing). This might be very applicable for me as I can feel I'm going downwind with quite some speed on some of my jumps. So when do I sheet out? At the peak? Won't I drop even faster when I keep the bar sheeted out while I'm coming down?

3) Also, you said it's easier to land softer if you have more speed. Just curious why this is the case. It seems the opposite in my case where I crash hard when I have speed

Lastly, you mentioned landing on the ass is safer. Unfortunately I proved you wrong.

Basically I ignored your biggest advice to practice during lighter winds with bigger kites and got my balls injured! It happened during the first 20min of the session and strangely I didn't feel any pain. When I came out for a break, I was adjusting my crotch a lot and joking with my girlfriend that my balls feel funny. And I continued the session and probably had 20+ crashes after that which was really stupid in hindsight. Only after I finished the session and took off the wetsuit I noticed my scrotum had become huge, 50% bigger than a tennis ball. I stupidly ignored it and went bouldering after that. While bouldering, although I still only had minor pain, I started feeling more awkward due to its size, and decided to go the emergency room. The doctor did an ultrasound and found that my testicles are ok but I had a testicular hematoma (rupture of some blood vessel in there) and it'll take 2-3 weeks to heal and drain that fluid and go back to the original size.

All said and done, I'm feeling lucky and thankful that there's no long-term damage. I'm curious if any of you have heard about kiters having testicle injuries. According to Woo and sessions apps, I went 3.8m and 3.3m. While that's not super high, perhaps that height combined with the high downwind speed might have caused the injury

Anyway, I learned the lesson not to ignore the safety advice given here :-D. I won't practice any jumps on my 5m till I can master landings with my 8m with lighter winds. All your advice is much appreciated.
sorry for the delay.

Sorry to hear you got injured. But imagine landing with that force on your legs...you might have saved yourself a nasty knee injury...
If you crash very hard, try to get some load on the board first, then your butt.
Put your feet forward so the board has an angle and skips of the water when crashing...then your butt follows...this way you spread the force of the crash.

1: with more popping you will go higher, and less far. Going far you under jump the kite and this will lead to your crashes.
Start next time to go with less speed..but pop harder...you will lift of to the same height like before, you fly less far, but the kite stays more above you and you will come down softer.

2: I sheet out when I feel the kite starts to fly forward...so I take out the forward speed that leads into crashing...but then before the landing I pull the bar back in so I get more power/lifting for the landing.
When sheeting out you can also steer the kite a bit backwards when you feel the forward pull...so the kite comes back further up on you.

3: can you tell me at what time in the video I said that?
Normally I say you need to go faster if you want to jump higher.

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Re: Need help with landing jumps (video)

Postby Indulang » Sun May 30, 2021 4:56 am

Toby wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:45 pm
3: can you tell me at what time in the video I said that?
Normally I say you need to go faster if you want to jump higher.
@Toby
I watched your video again and at 3:28, you say "and if you have more speed, it's easier to land softer...". Maybe what you meant is if you have no speed, you'll sink in the water on landing.

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Re: Need help with landing jumps (video)

Postby Indulang » Sun May 30, 2021 5:09 am

After practicing 100s of jumps, I'm landing most of my jumps now. Thank you all for your suggestions

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x38hha686cg0q ... r.mp4?dl=0

The first two jumps here are on a 7m and the other two on a 12m. I think my pop is still lousy. But I'm curious to hear your opinions on what I need to fix/improve to jump higher.

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Re: Need help with landing jumps (video)

Postby Toby » Sun May 30, 2021 2:55 pm

Indulang wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 5:09 am
After practicing 100s of jumps, I'm landing most of my jumps now. Thank you all for your suggestions

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x38hha686cg0q ... r.mp4?dl=0

The first two jumps here are on a 7m and the other two on a 12m. I think my pop is still lousy. But I'm curious to hear your opinions on what I need to fix/improve to jump higher.

Technically looks perfect!

Now add more power and more aggression into it. Remember, it is physics...the more energy, the higher you will go.
Try to edge harder, try to ride faster, and have more wind. All this leads to more air.

Keep practising, and you will see. And keep us informed, who it goes.

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Re: Need help with landing jumps (video)

Postby Toby » Sun May 30, 2021 2:58 pm

Indulang wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 4:56 am
Toby wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:45 pm
3: can you tell me at what time in the video I said that?
Normally I say you need to go faster if you want to jump higher.
@Toby
I watched your video again and at 3:28, you say "and if you have more speed, it's easier to land softer...". Maybe what you meant is if you have no speed, you'll sink in the water on landing.
this was meant to be, that if you have more speed of the kite at landing, it pulls you more forward. Instead of no speed and you just drop like a stone. Of course, relatively more speed, because if too fast, the landing will be a big challenge.

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Re: Need help with landing jumps (video)

Postby Herman » Sun May 30, 2021 5:16 pm

Glad to see the progress. Rather than go into details I would just recommend that you edge into wind for longer rather than harder and move the kite a little slower with the aim of getting the kite right above you before sheeting hard in and popping off the water. If done correctly it will send you straight up. The redirect will restore the forward momentum you need for landing. Once this is mastered it is time to think about jump transitions.

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Re: Need help with landing jumps (video)

Postby bkkite » Mon May 31, 2021 1:25 am

It’s probably all been said in the thread.

You’re not popping with the board when you take off. This would help you get more vertical and go less down wind on the jump.

Then, as you land, you’re not moving the kite enough before you hit the water. Basically as you’re coming down, you want to bring your kite fairly quickly from 12 or 1 ( if you are going to the left) down to like 10. This will give you a little lift before you hit water and slow you down before impact.

I’d recommend practicing popping with out really moving the kite. A lot of people learn to jump using the kite alone... and they miss that all the power and energy comes from edging and popping.


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