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north rebel pigtails

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supachip1
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north rebel pigtails

Postby supachip1 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:28 pm

hi, i'd like to give an old kite to the missus & friends to mess around with and was looking for some help, its a 2010, 12m north rebel, kites is good shape in general but seem to pull to one side. i'd like to check the pigtails/nose line lengths but the writing on the tabs isn't clear, does anyone have this info? cheers

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Re: north rebel pigtails

Postby PullStrings » Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:38 pm

OK
Just looked at my 2011 12 Reb and same all tabs are faded
So that's what i would do to check for a reason of one side pulling of kite
I assume your lines on 5th element bar have been checked and are 100% even

Look for asymmetry between left side and right side
Disassemble all lines from leading edge.....
....but first put some masking tape on each of them and mark tape L for left R for right with sharpie
And mark top / bottom for the pigtails on the wingtips that are going through the loop with shock-cord
Then take close up pictures off all of them where they connect to make sure you can re-assemble the same way

After that start comparing each L and R of each type pigtails and the V of nose line L/R
If all are perfectly even when fully stretched then you know it is not the problem
If you find an asymmetry in one or more of them when comparing side by side then you might have found the issue
It could be small like 5 or 10 mm
At that point find a way to lengthen the short ones to match R/L making your own very short extension pigtail

Hope this helps

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Re: north rebel pigtails

Postby sarc » Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:03 pm

PM Dan-at-Duotone, he's fantastic help.
By the way I measured my 2009 - 2012 - 2017 Rebel pigtail length and bridle length, they were completely different from what was printed in the tabs, I can't explain it but kites flew great.

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Re: north rebel pigtails

Postby evan » Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:13 pm

Don't need to disassemble or any measurements for a bridle symmetry check.

Just hold every section against their counter part under the same tension and note if there is any difference greater than 10mm. Could also be the stretching canopy or twisted bladders causing the kite to pull to one side.

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Re: north rebel pigtails

Postby PullStrings » Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:01 pm

supachip1 wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:28 pm
i'd like to give an old kite to the missus & friends to mess around with
kites is good shape in general but seem to pull to one side
You will have to give away the kite and the 5th element trust bar
It pulls to one side as you think
Let's say it is to the right
Before doing anything about the kite just test the bar under flying load
Do the simplest thing first

Rig your 12 Rebel with the bar the wrong way
Put the bar left on right and right on left so the lines get attached opposite side of normally done

Fly the kite with at least 12 knots
If it still seem to pull the same way " right " then yes something wrong at the kite
But if it now pulls " left " then your bar/lines are off somewhere causing the problem

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Dan-at-Duotone
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Re: north rebel pigtails

Postby Dan-at-Duotone » Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:54 pm

2010 Rebel 12 specs:
front pigtail: 154cm
back pitgtail V: 53/39 front/back
back pigtail: 15
noseline: 267
relaunch bungee: 95

I've never seen a kite go from flying straight to pulling to one side, so hopefully either the bar is mistuned (I'm assuming you've checked this, it's probably worth using a second bar just to double check, if the bar has been left wrapped for a long time it's possible one line was stretched more in the wrap-up and has since become longer, and it's a lot harder to check L/R outside line tuning because if you're not holding the bar exactly straight it can look good even if one side is stretched... Front line l/r and front/back tuning is easier to see because it's not as essential that the bar be at exactly 90 degrees...) or one of the pigtails has stretched or shrunk more on one side than the other.

If the lines are all good I've been told it's possible that the kite can start pulling due to a hard crash either stretching the material, which is unfixable, or twisting the LE bladder, which is fixable. Again, this is really rare, I've never actually seen a case of this myself.
So I'd say check the lines (including flying on another bar if possible), if that doesn't solve it try removing and reinstalling the LE bladder with lots of powder to make sure it doesn't twist and if that doesn't work you may either have to live with it or dispose of it.

-Dan

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Re: north rebel pigtails

Postby Guigassa » Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:02 pm

And if nothing solve the problem make one or two small pigtails and connect to lines on the side that pulls, try one on front line, see what happens, try on the rear line, see what happens, try on both....
Or move the knots ons leader lines in the bar.

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Re: north rebel pigtails

Postby Guigassa » Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:05 pm

evan wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:13 pm
Don't need to disassemble or any measurements for a bridle symmetry check.
If the bar is ok, this probably will solve the problem.

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Re: north rebel pigtails

Postby supachip1 » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:51 am

Dan-at-Duotone wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:54 pm
2010 Rebel 12 specs:
front pigtail: 154cm
back pitgtail V: 53/39 front/back
back pigtail: 15
noseline: 267
relaunch bungee: 95

Thanks for the measurements Dan, and suggestions form everyone else, the bars are all good as i use them on my other rebels and no diving to one side.

one of the front Pigtails was 6 cm shorter than the other and the rest of the lines was all short too, i stuck them through a wash cycle and they are slightly better but not correct, i managed to stretch the front pigtail so they are now equal however they are still both shorter than spec. i gained about 2cm's on them all last time so will run them through the wash again and see, maybe can stretch them also. not sure about that nose line though, 10cm seem a lot to be out, i will try to stretch this too, i take it the measurement is to the pigtail knot and not just the blue line.

fr pigtails 150
back pigtail V: 50/37.5
back pigtail 15
noseline 258
bungee 95

I have 1 bar question too. I've read here that over the years the bar V/Y Splits differ slightly, is there are reason for this ? i thought it was set at a specific height for the kite design, would that not mean not all years kites and bars were compatible?

cheers


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