Light wind kite

[Janus]

yup, at your weight 15m Soul & a light wind board, Door type or Nobile Kiteskim can be handy.. can be plussed with a HF later..
Kiteskims are very playfull

[leeuwen]

If you have constant deep Water around foiling could be an option BUT NEEDS A LOT OF TRAINING AND SKILLS!!!

Lets not make it sound more difficult then it is.
I would argue that learning to foil is not that bad in the right conditions (big stable front wing on the hydrofoil and flat water).
Assuming the right conditions and gear most people will be able to get up on the foil and ride in a couple of sessions but will need to do a splash-down to turn around.
The actual hard part is getting to a level where you can keep riding without getting wet (turns and foot switches) but it already be loads of fun when you can just cruise both directions.

If you are on a very tight budget I would probably skip the low wind twintip gear, which you might never use again, and try to go straight to the hydrofoil.
The main skill you learn on a twintip which is relevant for the hydrofoil is kite control.
Alternatively you could do training hours on an (empty) beach or shallow water in 8-10 knots to get good kite control.
Do things like walking towards the kite to see how it behaves when the lines go slack and how to save it from stalling/crashing etc.
Steering the kite and saving it from crashes should be second nature so you don't need to think about it while also managing the hydrofoil.
Once you are there there is nothing to hold you back from getting up on a hydrofoil.

Will it be frustrating to learn to hydrofoil in 8-10 knots? Absolutely!
Will trying to learn/progress on a twintip be frustrating in 8-10 knots and be boring long term? Absolutely!
Pick your poison. I would go with the one that has the best outlook of nice sessions in the future and that is the hydrofoil one.

Regarding kites for 8-10 kn I think you will want either a foil kite or a one/no strut.
Exact sizing is hard for me to tell since I weigh 15KG less. I would think a 12M inflatable probably works and a 10M for foil kite assuming a big front hydrofoil wing like the moses 633 or similar.
Would check with the foil forum to be sure.

[narwhal_bg]

Tank you all, i'll go for 17m2 and eventually big TT (after a few tries with my board), the reason for 15m2 was that may become overpowered quickly and without experience can end bad. Also im not planing to learn HF for now , ill stay on TT kiteboarding.
Thank you all for advices, wish you all the best!

[Blackened]

Here is a video of my 110kg plus gear 'lawn moving' with 15 meter foil kite under 10kn. Another foil kite is 15m speed3 by 85kg rider. No pumps even bothered coming to beach. This is sea beach, not small lake by lack of waves.

That's lawn mowing. It's fun to do once or twice a year on a big kite. Otherwise, it happens far too often during lulls on my small kites and I can't megaloop.

Also, I'm not sure I'd put a newbie on a foil kite.

[Pump me up]

Forget pump kites under 14kn. They are too inefficient and won't relaunch etc. 8-10kn is a foil kite kingdom.

Please ignore the lies of ram lovers.

Ram air ("foil") kites are inferior light wind kites for the following reasons:
a) Excessive drag (bridles, lack of internal rigidity, excessive friction at the "boundary layer", and trailing edge thickness), compromising the Lift/Drag ratio
b) VERY slow turning
c) Inertia. See above.
d) Bridle failures and tangling
e) Wind dropouts and gear failure
ALL kiters experiences a few gear failures (eg broken lines) and COMPLETE wind dropouts every year. Inflatables can be "sailed" (self-rescued) or swum to shore. If things are REALLY bad, the inflatable structure can support your weight, eg http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2368004

In contrast, ALL ram airs eventually become hopelessly waterlogged, un-relaunchable, and unable to support body weight.
eg http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2346569
eg http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... 90#p608890
eg http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... 6&p=617396
eg http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... 2&p=704984

The following is an example of "diraklib's" experience with ram airs in wind dropouts:

"the SA-19 is huge and can whack you silly if you let it get down wind of you in a low wind launch. It is downright scary - be ready with the QR at all times if not up and riding!!! I can't say I agree with claims that you can ride the SA-19 in anything lower than a steady 8 knots. I made a personal choice to not ride the SA-19 any more. It went down twice in lulls and managed to bow-tie on the way down - there was no way to relaunch. I was not as lucky as others that self rescued. My kite was full of water by the time I dragged my very tired and frustrated a$$ to shore. It sounds simple, "wrap the lines around the bar, fold the kite in half, roll it up on your board and paddle in"... noooo... there are lines everywhere under water that wrap around your feet as you are trying to manipulate the kite. You just pray that a gust won't pop the kite up and slice of an appendage. The kite ... is just too scary when it goes down. My attitude now is - if my LEI won't fly, I shouldn't be on the water. Anyone interested in a slightly used SA2-19m??? Cheap???"

For the full epiphany, checkout http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... 9&start=40

The following is the experience of "pmaggie" with ram airs in wind dropouts:

I rode foils only a few times, so these are really my two cents. The problem I experieced with foils in very light wind when they suddenly fall. In my home spot, in very light wind days, sometimes the wind really goes to zero for 1 minute or so. When this happen, both foils and inflatables suddenly fall. In this cases, my inflatable, since it's far heavier than a foil, fall directly into the water with no line tangling and I just have to wait for a gust to relaunch (when possible, that means about 7 knots for my Core 17). When a foil falls with no wind, being very light, it's common that its lines roll over it and became completely tangled. At that point, it's not that easy to relaunch.
The other big problem with foils in very light wind is when the wind completely stops. With an inflatable, you just get your kite and swim attached to your little floating boat. With a foil, you have 20 sqm of tissue to carry home with you!

For the full story, checkout: http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2376332

Here is the experience of "FredBGG" with a line failure:

The other day I had a front line fail.
Wind was slightly off shore...
I really needed a tow to the beach.
I had the kite safely on the 5th line folded in half (flysurfer Foil)
I waved down two kiters.... both expert judging by their riding.
Both refused to help.
One even yelled if you can't relaunch it's your problem.
Anyway after a difficult ordeal in the surf and current I got back to the beach.
I had to rest a bit but my board was still out there.

For the full admission http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2362065
The problem here isn't with the other kiters, it's with Fred's choice of kite. If Fred had an inflatable, he would have been able to "self-rescue" by grabbing the tips and "sailing" to shore. The other kiters refusing to help is understandable: Fred opted for less safe equipment. It's his problem and he shouldn't impose on others to make up for his equipment deficiencies. Also, towing a ram air to shore is like towing a sleeping bag full of water - difficult and dangerous.

f) 8 knot limit
Despite the lies of ram lovers, you won't really get going on any kite (ram air OR inflatable) unless the wind is over ~ 7-8 knots and won't really have fun until ~ 10 knots.
[youtube][/youtube]
This video may prove the 7-8 knot low limit. Both kites - the 21m Flysurfer and the smaller (?17m) inflatable are FAILING TO STAY UPWIND and, by the look of the flag, there's about ? (hard to say) 8 knots of wind.

It's interesting to note that the ram air and the inflatable are both struggling IN SIMILAR CONDITIONS.

Ram lovers have been shown to lie repeatedly about their light wind capabilities:
eg "jumping 8m in 8 knots" http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6349
eg http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... 27#p539227
eg

My Speed 3 19 DL gives up under 5 knots... - Gunnar Biniasch

Wind moving at <7 knots (13km/h) simply cannot deliver enough power for ANY kite to perform; certainly NO KITE WILL PERFORM AT 5 KNOTS. Gunnar's exaggerations can be found at http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2361421

g ) BIG INFLATABLES are better than BIG FLYSURFERS in Light Winds[/color]
See this thread about the poor light wind properties of Flysurfer http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2349064 , in particular:

I read all the same reports and reviews that everyone else here probably read and spent the "big bucks" for the S2-19, but to be honest was extremely disappointed and sold it…Flysurfers just plain suck in gusty, light winds…I had a hard time keeping the thing in the air much less getting enough power from it to go on the water… A couple months later I got an 07 Waroo 20m…and it is the best 20m I've ever flown. I am able to fly it in winds I would never have thought possible.

i) Peter Frank's opinion
Peter Frank, a well respected commentator on the sport, says 8-9 knots is the bare minimum http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2365531

What is the lowest wind condition I can go kitesurfing and what is the best kite brand and size for it?

It depends a lot on your weight, how low you can go.
If you are "average" around 80kg, the lowest you can go will be around 5m/s (10knots) with the right kite and board.
If you are REALLY experienced, you will be able to push the lower limit down to about 8-9 knots, but this is the absolute lowest wind possible to kitesurf in (holding ground/going upwind) with average weight IMO.
And talking about EXACTLY how "low you can go" is just pure bullshit - as you can not measure the windspeed at the kite, which is the only true value for this.
Sometimes you have a huge windgradient, sometimes a small one, and air temperature and height also influences.
But around 10knots is the limit for most kitesurfers, and just a small tad lower for the "extreme" ones
When you talk about windspeed - where is it measured then ?
At headheight, maybe around 2 meter above the water ?
Or at 10 meter height, which is our (Denmark) meterological standard height for wind measurements ?
There is a difference of typical 2 knots, so VERY important.
My point is - always take those claiming "this and that" as their minimum wind speed with a grain of salt
Peter

[iriejohn]

TL;DR

When I was a CEO my rule for presentations was that anything over one page double spaced was not acceptable.

'Nuff said.

Forget pump kites under 14kn. They are too inefficient and won't relaunch etc. 8-10kn is a foil kite kingdom.

Please ignore the lies of ram lovers.

Ram air ("foil") kites are inferior light wind kites for the following reasons:
a) Excessive drag (bridles, lack of internal rigidity, excessive friction at the "boundary layer", and trailing edge thickness), compromising the Lift/Drag ratio
b) VERY slow turning
c) Inertia. See above.
d) Bridle failures and tangling
e) Wind dropouts and gear failure
ALL kiters experiences a few gear failures (eg broken lines) and COMPLETE wind dropouts every year. Inflatables can be "sailed" (self-rescued) or swum to shore. If things are REALLY bad, the inflatable structure can support your weight, eg http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2368004

In contrast, ALL ram airs eventually become hopelessly waterlogged, un-relaunchable, and unable to support body weight.
eg http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2346569
eg http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... 90#p608890
eg http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... 6&p=617396
eg http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... 2&p=704984

The following is an example of "diraklib's" experience with ram airs in wind dropouts:

"the SA-19 is huge and can whack you silly if you let it get down wind of you in a low wind launch. It is downright scary - be ready with the QR at all times if not up and riding!!! I can't say I agree with claims that you can ride the SA-19 in anything lower than a steady 8 knots. I made a personal choice to not ride the SA-19 any more. It went down twice in lulls and managed to bow-tie on the way down - there was no way to relaunch. I was not as lucky as others that self rescued. My kite was full of water by the time I dragged my very tired and frustrated a$$ to shore. It sounds simple, "wrap the lines around the bar, fold the kite in half, roll it up on your board and paddle in"... noooo... there are lines everywhere under water that wrap around your feet as you are trying to manipulate the kite. You just pray that a gust won't pop the kite up and slice of an appendage. The kite ... is just too scary when it goes down. My attitude now is - if my LEI won't fly, I shouldn't be on the water. Anyone interested in a slightly used SA2-19m??? Cheap???"

For the full epiphany, checkout http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... 9&start=40

The following is the experience of "pmaggie" with ram airs in wind dropouts:

I rode foils only a few times, so these are really my two cents. The problem I experieced with foils in very light wind when they suddenly fall. In my home spot, in very light wind days, sometimes the wind really goes to zero for 1 minute or so. When this happen, both foils and inflatables suddenly fall. In this cases, my inflatable, since it's far heavier than a foil, fall directly into the water with no line tangling and I just have to wait for a gust to relaunch (when possible, that means about 7 knots for my Core 17). When a foil falls with no wind, being very light, it's common that its lines roll over it and became completely tangled. At that point, it's not that easy to relaunch.
The other big problem with foils in very light wind is when the wind completely stops. With an inflatable, you just get your kite and swim attached to your little floating boat. With a foil, you have 20 sqm of tissue to carry home with you!

For the full story, checkout: http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2376332

Here is the experience of "FredBGG" with a line failure:

The other day I had a front line fail.
Wind was slightly off shore...
I really needed a tow to the beach.
I had the kite safely on the 5th line folded in half (flysurfer Foil)
I waved down two kiters.... both expert judging by their riding.
Both refused to help.
One even yelled if you can't relaunch it's your problem.
Anyway after a difficult ordeal in the surf and current I got back to the beach.
I had to rest a bit but my board was still out there.

For the full admission http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2362065
The problem here isn't with the other kiters, it's with Fred's choice of kite. If Fred had an inflatable, he would have been able to "self-rescue" by grabbing the tips and "sailing" to shore. The other kiters refusing to help is understandable: Fred opted for less safe equipment. It's his problem and he shouldn't impose on others to make up for his equipment deficiencies. Also, towing a ram air to shore is like towing a sleeping bag full of water - difficult and dangerous.

f) 8 knot limit
Despite the lies of ram lovers, you won't really get going on any kite (ram air OR inflatable) unless the wind is over ~ 7-8 knots and won't really have fun until ~ 10 knots.
[youtube][/youtube]
This video may prove the 7-8 knot low limit. Both kites - the 21m Flysurfer and the smaller (?17m) inflatable are FAILING TO STAY UPWIND and, by the look of the flag, there's about ? (hard to say) 8 knots of wind.

It's interesting to note that the ram air and the inflatable are both struggling IN SIMILAR CONDITIONS.

Ram lovers have been shown to lie repeatedly about their light wind capabilities:
eg "jumping 8m in 8 knots" http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6349
eg http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... 27#p539227
eg

My Speed 3 19 DL gives up under 5 knots... - Gunnar Biniasch

Wind moving at <7 knots (13km/h) simply cannot deliver enough power for ANY kite to perform; certainly NO KITE WILL PERFORM AT 5 KNOTS. Gunnar's exaggerations can be found at http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2361421

g ) BIG INFLATABLES are better than BIG FLYSURFERS in Light Winds[/color]
See this thread about the poor light wind properties of Flysurfer http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2349064 , in particular:

I read all the same reports and reviews that everyone else here probably read and spent the "big bucks" for the S2-19, but to be honest was extremely disappointed and sold it…Flysurfers just plain suck in gusty, light winds…I had a hard time keeping the thing in the air much less getting enough power from it to go on the water… A couple months later I got an 07 Waroo 20m…and it is the best 20m I've ever flown. I am able to fly it in winds I would never have thought possible.

i) Peter Frank's opinion
Peter Frank, a well respected commentator on the sport, says 8-9 knots is the bare minimum http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2365531

What is the lowest wind condition I can go kitesurfing and what is the best kite brand and size for it?

It depends a lot on your weight, how low you can go.
If you are "average" around 80kg, the lowest you can go will be around 5m/s (10knots) with the right kite and board.
If you are REALLY experienced, you will be able to push the lower limit down to about 8-9 knots, but this is the absolute lowest wind possible to kitesurf in (holding ground/going upwind) with average weight IMO.
And talking about EXACTLY how "low you can go" is just pure bullshit - as you can not measure the windspeed at the kite, which is the only true value for this.
Sometimes you have a huge windgradient, sometimes a small one, and air temperature and height also influences.
But around 10knots is the limit for most kitesurfers, and just a small tad lower for the "extreme" ones
When you talk about windspeed - where is it measured then ?
At headheight, maybe around 2 meter above the water ?
Or at 10 meter height, which is our (Denmark) meterological standard height for wind measurements ?
There is a difference of typical 2 knots, so VERY important.
My point is - always take those claiming "this and that" as their minimum wind speed with a grain of salt
Peter

[Guttorm]

Buy a used Xr4 17 it is fantastic and better than the Xr5 17 and way cheaper to.

[HugoMC]

A light wind surfboard could be useful also instead of the big TT. More float and not that hard to ride either.

[joriws]

Here is a video of my 110kg plus gear 'lawn moving' with 15 meter foil kite under 10kn. Another foil kite is 15m speed3 by 85kg rider. No pumps even bothered coming to beach. This is sea beach, not small lake by lack of waves.

That's lawn mowing. It's fun to do once or twice a year on a big kite. Otherwise, it happens far too often during lulls on my small kites and I can't megaloop.

Also, I'm not sure I'd put a newbie on a foil kite.

Lawn moving is no jumps or tricks i.e. riding just back and forth in case you did not know like ploughing with hydrofoil.





*You* might be blessed with megaloop winds every day of the year, but I and OP are not among many other kite hobbyist. In here 12kn is already rare a storm, >20kn is very rare. So you must kite the rules of your area's wind pattern and select gear based on that, or quit kiting. I know many quitters as "no winds for LEIs" and also winter snow/ice conditions are getting really bad due to global warming.

I'd put newbie on a good foil kite just not Pansh which usually seems to need tuning before first flight. Most start with *foil* trainer kites. I started on loaned Ozone Samurai 5m and then purchased my own 19m foil kite (remember my wind area) to get even some summer training time. It is quite the opposite, on LEI kites I see newbies (and also 15y kited) being dragged by death loops, non-functioning safeties due to couple of quick loops, overpowered due to gradient on mountains with poor depower, kicking sand on their leaking kites frustrated etc.

Do you know newbies start paragliding with bridled airfoils. There is nothing mystique in using foil kites, weight windward wing tip down, open lines from bar, close valves and lift mixer up to see if there is any loop based tangles on bridle and launch. They relaunch much better, remember we are talking now 8-12kn wind levels where even 20y experienced IKO teacher tries to relaunch his 16m Juice for 15 minutes when I ride and jump 4m high jumps.

--

Let's take this video, the HF is ploughing. But he selected to ride (Peak4 8meter!) because he loves being out on water. OR Flite aluula 17m shows what LEIs really are in light winds, aluula supposed to be best there is?? Hahah.. Just digest it. Now OP wanted practise kiting in 8-12kn region, I think he went for 17m LEI(?) kite. I just say good luck...

[knotwindy]

Hi all! Happy holidays.
I'm new in kiteboarding, I have only one alone session after the lessons. I'm 85 kg or 187 pounds with 12 m2 kite (12-22 knt according manufacturer) and 138x42 board. On my home spot, most of the time we have low wind (between 8 and 10 knt). Does it make sense to buy bigger kite like 15m2 RRD Emotion and 163 low wind board for 8 to 10 knt wind?

I’m sorry to be the one who has to tell you this but there is only one good way to deal with 8-10 knot winds......
move