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Covid vaccine

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Matteo V
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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Matteo V » Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:30 am

Kamikuza wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:11 am
Excess mortality, ignoring COVID statistics, is well up over previous years. And just wait till the missed cancer diagnosis and treatment stats start showing up in the coming years :(
That will be due to extended lockdowns, due to mutations/new strains of Covid-19. Thus those deaths will have Covid-19 "mentioned".

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Dave_5280 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:24 pm

23 die in Norway after receiving COVID vaccine

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wbtw.c ... ccine/amp/

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Kamikuza
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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Kamikuza » Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:07 pm

Dave_5280 wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:24 pm
23 die in Norway after receiving COVID vaccine

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wbtw.c ... ccine/amp/
23 now? Was 13 when I last saw that article a few days ago.

Out of 30,000 or so vaccinations, so my math makes that 7/10,000 and doesn't that make it more deadly than the virus itself?

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Havre » Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:14 pm

https://www.forbes.com/sites/gracemarie ... 2oR7CFKBHk

"More than 600 of the nation’s physicians sent a letter to President Trump this week calling the coronavirus shutdowns a “mass casualty incident” with “exponentially growing negative health consequences” to millions of non COVID patients.

“The downstream health effects...are being massively under-estimated and under-reported. This is an order of magnitude error," according to the letter initiated by Simone Gold, M.D., an emergency medicine specialist in Los Angeles.

“Suicide hotline phone calls have increased 600%,” the letter said. Other silent casualties: “150,000 Americans per month who would have had new cancer detected through routine screening.”


Not directly related to vaccines, but wasn't this rather obvious even in March?

As for the deaths in Norway I´m sure more will follow. Case fatality rate will with more or less 100% certainty never get close to the virus for vaccines - the issue is that you are vaccinating healthy people - so basically you are "creating" cases. For all we know many of those that have died after getting the vaccine in Norway already had the virus - and therefore didn't need the vaccine. Looks like we will have some sort of debate about it at least in Norway - if we see more incidents. More or less all I´m asking for at this point.

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Daversj » Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:33 pm

This thread is ridiculous, just saying.

Matteo V
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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Matteo V » Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:39 pm

Kamikuza wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:07 pm
Dave_5280 wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:24 pm
23 die in Norway after receiving COVID vaccine

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wbtw.c ... ccine/amp/
23 now? Was 13 when I last saw that article a few days ago.

Out of 30,000 or so vaccinations, so my math makes that 7/10,000 and doesn't that make it more deadly than the virus itself?
First, we do not actually know how deadly the virus is when we are counting deaths of those "with" Covid-19 as deaths "from" Covid-19. That needs to be fixed before we make any comparison.

Second, how many of those 30,000 "supposed vaccines" were given to patients over 80. Because that is the number on the bottom, not 10,000.

Third, these were nearly immediate deaths. We need to take into consideration the longterm effects in these elderly patients.

Fourth, the effacicy (effectiveness) of the vaccine needs to be proven in this age group. If you stretch out the timeline far enough, those over 80 are going to need future "vaccination boosters" (actually a treatment). If the negative effects are cumulative, than these people will wind up dying of the vaccine, even if it is the 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th treatment that kills them. And as they age, their body is going to become less resistant to even the initial negative effects of the "vaccine". At this point, we need to recognize that the vaccine is as deadly as the disease for them.

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Havre » Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:50 pm

There might be some rare exceptions, but only people in the highest risk groups are getting vaccinated for the moment in Norway. Basically elderly and sick people in care homes.

There is no reason to believe that these numbers will hold up going forward in terms of people dying in the days after getting the vaccine.

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Hugh2 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:13 pm

Warning, fat old guy here. Did I tell you how happy I am to be getting a mRNA vaccine on Tuesday? Two more days and then 7-10 days more and I will be largely immune, and even if I do catch the virus, even the UK or SA variants, I will only have a mild case. Let the conspiracy theorists on here who don't accept the validity of vaccines, which despite Matteo's crazy assertions that they are "treatments", are actually real vaccines that prime our immune system to recognize and swiftly respond to a subsequent real infection. And they are not ameliorated or weakened coronavirus. The BioNtech/Pfizer and Moderna/NIH vaccines are both mRNA vaccines that are a specialized version of the mRNA that encodes the spike protein only, so there is absolutely no risk of being "infected" with something. The Norwegian deaths after vaccination are entirely explained by the fact that they are vaccinating tens of thousands of the oldest people in the country and hence a tiny number of them will inevitably die shortly after having the vaccine, just like the tiny number that die every day anyway, nothing to see here despite havre's panic. The Oxford/AstraZeneca and most other vaccines are various benign respiratory viruses that have been modified to include the gene that encodes this spike protein, and indeed they are designed to generate a mild infection for a short period, but again are being shown to be safe and efficacious. If you guys don't want the vaccine, fine with me, will allow others to get it instead, but PLEASE, stop with the conspiracy theories that might, like Trumpism and QAnon, suck others down into ignorance and stupidity. I'm a happy camper, soon to return to my more regular existence, so I'm out of here, bye all.
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Havre
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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Havre » Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:49 pm

Panic?

Hugh2 is right. The Norwegian deaths are entirely explainable. Median age for deaths being above average expected lifespan in Norway. The question is am I talking about the virus or the vaccines?

Just saw today. In the third largest city in Norway we got 0 Covid-19 deaths. Not the last week or the last month, but 0 overall. So who exactly are panicking here?

Some other reflections. Why are absolutely all mutations mentioned always more transmittable? Are there no mutations that might be less harmful? Less transmittable? Why is it that whenever a new mutation pops up they have to check if the vaccines will still work when it is so obvious they will? Why did we even have trials, that mainly excluded the oldest, sickest and youngest when the vaccines are so clearly harmless?

Sadly we might never get any answers to those questions as Hugh2 is "out".
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knotwindy
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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby knotwindy » Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:53 pm

All of these comments are well thought out, rationally explained piece of short sighted, compartmentalized & cherrypicked information so as to be almost rubbish. But if it works for you and others use it and enjoy it. We all use some form of simplistic denial to get through the day. Both sides of this ‘conversation’ are talking about lots of feelings with no accurate data available yet so enjoy whichever side you agree with. Just know it’s nonsense to try and say your right and what you ‘know’ is true. We all want to know what to do with this new crazy world wide problem and will stretch reality to get an answer that makes us comfortable. Good on you but everything comes with unintended consequences so maybe wait for better more accurate data? Oh, that’s right, we can’t wait. We have to do something, even if it wrong. People are crazyAF.


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