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Covid vaccine

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PinkNorthPride
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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby PinkNorthPride » Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:02 pm

iriejohn wrote:
Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:19 am
Had my jab yesterday, no side effects other than a slightly sore injection site. This morning going mountain biking with Mrs irie. :thumb:
There's a Mrs Irie? And there were we thinking....

How disappointing. :wink:

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Havre » Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:31 pm

The funny thing with masks of course is that the perfect one is made from something like plastic - nothing goes through (even if I wouldn't know if plastic we see in a plastic bag would stop the virus). If we all just wrapped plastic bags around our heads the pandemic would be over in somewhere around 10 mins. So you got to compromise.

How small is the virus? In this dot -> . somewhat depending on your setup would be big enough to hold somewhere around 50 million virus particles. Meaning that as soon as you go away from the plastic bag solution you are not stopping the virus.

That is not to say I believe masks are necessarily useless. Would they stop "accidental" spit when talking? I guess so.

In Norway we had a small conversation earlier about masks. You would think if they were nearly as effective as some seem to claim that we could actually allow society to be more open as long as we use masks? The answer given in Norway was always "no, masks (or vaccines for that matter) will not change anything". Why? A small example would be football games. The biggest stadiums can hold 15-20k and clubs were asking if one could allow a couple of thousand to enter if people wore masks, the entry was controlled etc. - "no - not possible". It logically doesn't add up. If you cannot allow people to sit outside in a football stadium in a very controlled environment wearing a mask - then you just don't trust your own "science". I mean you would know exactly who entered and sat where in case of an outbreak. It basically cannot be more controlled.

This is different than games in for example England where the risks are I guess more linked to getting to and from the stadium. Public transport etc. In Norway that is not an issue and any "rush" to a stadium under those conditions would be minimal compared to what we see every morning when people are going to work.

I am not against masks, but yet again a proper conversation is not being had.

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Dave_5280 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:52 am

Havre wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:31 pm
How small is the virus? In this dot -> . somewhat depending on your setup would be big enough to hold somewhere around 50 million virus particles. Meaning that as soon as you go away from the plastic bag solution you are not stopping the virus.
A friend of mine is a retired medical doctor and said that trying to stop a virus with a mask is like trying to catch mosquitos with a chain link fence. Recently I heard someone ask if they could smell odors like perfume and cologne threw their mask, wouldn’t the virus also get through?

Also, most people don’t cover their eyes so they are a point of entry for the virus.

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby revhed » Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:28 am

PinkNorthPride wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:02 pm
There's a Mrs Irie? And there were we thinking....
Thinking what? :nono:
U R welcome 2 keep your baseless pride 2 yourself!
I and most others do not flaunt their sexuality, preference, why do you?

Covid new strains exploding here, hospital in nearest small city full, having to transport to others.
Most younger and healthy not even a little sick though positive, while older VERY sick a lot of the time.
Most spread seems to happen inside where more than a little time is spent together.

SO, your choice to,

Wash your hands well and often
Wear a quality mask OVER your nose
Consider eye protection
Keep your distance
Get vaccinated

Will either help of hurt the situation.

I often wonder how one would feel if they knew somehow that their lack of respectful actions led to a death?
Almost impossible to trace so seems most simple do not care.
R H

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Havre » Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:59 am

revhed wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:28 am
I often wonder how one would feel if they knew somehow that their lack of respectful actions led to a death?
Should it be apply that for influenza as well? Or is it just relevant for Covid-19?

And you can turn it on its head. Why should a sick 93 year old's risk of getting a virus dictate a 10 year old's education? Those kind of simplified moralistic statements are not very helpful. On the contrary they are only divisive in a very dangerous way - as you, in this case revhed, honestly believe they got some sort of moral high ground here.

I will once again quote CS Lewis; “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive."

I believe he could very well be correct in that assessment. The arrogance it breads is quite astonishing. As seen in this thread. The most aggressive posts are generally speaking made by people holding the majority opinion. Which is rather odd. Usually it is the minority that feel the pressure the most and which often materializes in aggression. Another typical reason for aggressiveness is obviously when you sense that your position isn't very strong and it stems from defensiveness.

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Havre » Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:27 am

Not to mention pneumonia. The leading cause of death for children under 5 year old is pneumonia. 800k died in 2017 alone.
pneumonia.JPG
Should we attribute these deaths as well to "lack of respect"?

Don't get me wrong. I am all for having a debate about this issue, but please do not pretend that it is an easy dilemma to balance. I don't believe anyone would want to remove all "dangers" from life - not even sure if it is possible. Infants die if they are not touched - so either you have to expose them to a certain risk of them dying from pneumonia, influenza or getting Covid-19 - or they will die in any case.

That is only speaking about death. I would challenge anyone to make a list of the 5-10 things they enjoy the most about life and see how many of those are influenced by the restrictions we now see in most of the world. And think about if the "cost/benefit" analysis makes long term sense. My guess for most it doesn't - which is why we got 800k children under the age of 5 dying from pneumonia in 2017. Maybe there is a better balance to be struck? I am all ears, but it requires more than just talking about "respect".

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Havre » Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:37 am

Dave_5280 wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 3:52 am
Havre wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:31 pm
How small is the virus? In this dot -> . somewhat depending on your setup would be big enough to hold somewhere around 50 million virus particles. Meaning that as soon as you go away from the plastic bag solution you are not stopping the virus.
A friend of mine is a retired medical doctor and said that trying to stop a virus with a mask is like trying to catch mosquitos with a chain link fence. Recently I heard someone ask if they could smell odors like perfume and cologne threw their mask, wouldn’t the virus also get through?

Also, most people don’t cover their eyes so they are a point of entry for the virus.
Good point. I was asked to smell some tea the other day - and didn't have to remove my mask to do so.

I don't know if masks work or not, but the evidence based discussion is certainly not happening. But unlike many other restrictions masks wouldn't by themselves necessarily limit you that much. This time of year many will cover their face anyway in Norway due to the cold temperatures. To me masks reminds me a bit of seat belts, helmets etc. I find it absolutely silly that an adult should be forced to wear a helmet when riding a motorcycle considering you are only putting yourself at risk. At the same time it is a question of alternative costs. Am I going to spend my life trying to get riding a motorcycle without a helmet legal? No. A bit the same here. If Fauci tweeted that we could have our lives back as long as we wore masks in certain situations vs. not wearing masks, but still having these kind of quasi-lockdowns I would go with the former. Lesser evil to me. Right now we are just losing on both fronts though.

And as stated publicly in Norway some 6 months ago or so - they wanted to introduce masks just so people do not forget how "serious" this is. Can only admire the honesty I guess.

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Trent hink » Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:40 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:50 pm

Best way to create a demand is to fake a shortage.

Interesting statement, and worth considering.

But with few supporting facts, you must admit that if your government has squandered or stolen the billions slated for a vaccine rollout, the best possible way to limit outrage and chaos over extreme shortages is to create some amount of distrust in the vaccine.

Vaccine distribution in the US is clearly a shit-show with essentially zero federal coordination. The state of Florida, where I live, has only recently made some kind of proof of residency a requirement to be eligible. Prior to that, anyone from literally anywhere, over age 65 and, of course, with the proper connections, could come to this state and have a chance to get the vaccine.

Yeah, sure it’s easy to come up with all kinds of crazy hypothesizes about why things are the way they are.

But usually the simplest explanation is the most likely.

In this case the most simple explanation is complete ineptitude.

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Matteo V » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:01 am

Trent hink wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:40 pm
Interesting statement, and worth considering.

But with few supporting facts, you must admit that if your government has squandered or stolen the billions slated for a vaccine rollout, the best possible way to limit outrage and chaos over extreme shortages is to create some amount of distrust in the vaccine.
Potato / Mattatoe.

Trent hink wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:40 pm
The state of Florida, where I live, has only recently made some kind of proof of residency a requirement to be eligible. Prior to that, anyone from literally anywhere, over age 65 and, of course, with the proper connections, could come to this state and have a chance to get the vaccine.

Yeah, sure it’s easy to come up with all kinds of crazy hypothesizes about why things are the way they are.

But usually the simplest explanation is the most likely.

In this case the most simple explanation is complete ineptitude.
Seems like you, I, and about 90% of the people on earth have the same view that government is essentially worthless at anything.

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby longwhitecloud » Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:46 am

Well i didnt want to post in this thread , however you may be interested to see my friends reaction that had their vaccine injection this week. They only had the first part and have now been told they will have to wait 10 more weeks for the next one.. what a joke!

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CKP5GmWHb1 ... iuzivo526o


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