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Kitedicted
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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Kitedicted » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:26 pm

Yeah but that is the thing, what risks of the vaccines are we talking about? It's too easy to just say any potential side effect because *unknown*.

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Havre » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:43 pm

Kitedicted wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:26 pm
Yeah but that is the thing, what risks of the vaccines are we talking about? It's too easy to just say any potential side effect because *unknown*.
How is that "too easy"? I don't think anyone wanted to destroy lives with the swine flu vaccine, but I think you would be hard pressed to argue that was a success.

So far 0 have died in my age group from Covid-19 in Norway. So right now for me personally the risks actually look fairly similar. As for others I'm not against vaccines as it could very well be the benefits outweighs the risks. I might very well recommend my parents to get a vaccine.

Kitedicted
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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Kitedicted » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:03 pm

It is too easy because it's just fear. Swine flu side effects were unfortunate. Covid risks apart from death include arterial and/or venous thromboembolism, long term fatigue, lung fibrosis, microvascular brain damage, cardiovascular complications etc. These are objective and proven. While these potential vaccine side effects are not. For the vaccines approved in Sweden I think at least 100k people have been included with no severe side effects. I'm not rejecting the possibility of side effecrs, but it seems a bit excessive to assume their existance right now.

Last but not leasy my spidey sense is forseeing a c19 vaccine requirment for future epic kite trips :D

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Havre » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:11 pm

Kitedicted wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:03 pm
It is too easy because it's just fear. Swine flu side effects were unfortunate. Covid risks apart from death include arterial and/or venous thromboembolism, long term fatigue, lung fibrosis, microvascular brain damage, cardiovascular complications etc. These are objective and proven. While these potential vaccine side effects are not. For the vaccines approved in Sweden I think at least 100k people have been included with no severe side effects. I'm not rejecting the possibility of side effecrs, but it seems a bit excessive to assume their existance right now.

Last but not leasy my spidey sense is forseeing a c19 vaccine requirment for future epic kite trips :D
Obviously no-one can say what the long term effects are. Even if most side effects historically show up quite quickly with vaccines. Even if for example the hypothesis that the BCG vaccine gives some protection against Covid-19 would prove something different.

I believe you are right on the last one. Even if I take a vaccine I will still do whatever I can for them not to be mandatory.

That is the most depressing part for me with all this. People seem to be perfectly happy for things to be mandatory because they themselves will take a vaccine, or are perfectly happy with seeing people they don't like being banned from Twitter etc. Not saying you are. But to me seem to have lost something along the way here. If this becomes mandatory I can more or less promise it won't be the last thing made mandatory over the next 20 years.

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Kitedicted » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:19 pm

I agree with you on that, I don't think it should be mandatory either.

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby airsail » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:57 pm

The government in Oz isn’t making it mandatory, but the commercial world is. Employers must provide a safe workplace, having someone unvaccinated on site fails this requirement. So if you want to be an employee, get on an aircraft, travel overseas, go on a cruise etc, your not going to have much choice.

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Havre » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:16 pm

airsail wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:57 pm
The government in Oz isn’t making it mandatory, but the commercial world is. Employers must provide a safe workplace, having someone unvaccinated on site fails this requirement. So if you want to be an employee, get on an aircraft, travel overseas, go on a cruise etc, your not going to have much choice.
How is that unsafe?

Just today the Norwegian Prime Minister pointed out that it is far from proven that being vaccinated stops you from spreading the virus. She actually said it probably doesn’t. And if the vaccines work why would you care what others do?
Last edited by Havre on Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Havre
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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Havre » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:17 pm

https://www.thelocal.fr/20201230/just-4 ... poll-shows

So 6 out of 10 are at the moment not taking the vaccine in France.

Not saying they are right, but I hope it holds. Making it mandatory if you got big countries like France only getting to 40% won't work.

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby airsail » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:30 am

Havre wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:16 pm
airsail wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:57 pm
The government in Oz isn’t making it mandatory, but the commercial world is. Employers must provide a safe workplace, having someone unvaccinated on site fails this requirement. So if you want to be an employee, get on an aircraft, travel overseas, go on a cruise etc, your not going to have much choice.
How is that unsafe?

Just today the Norwegian Prime Minister pointed out that it is far from proven that being vaccinated stops you from spreading the virus. She actually said it probably doesn’t. And if the vaccines work why would you care what others do?
Liability, the employer could be sued should another employee contract the virus and it is traced to an unvaccinated employee.
Yes it’s a long shot, but I’m guessing the insurance industry will mandate the requirement, and I’m sure not many employers would take the risk going it alone.

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Dave_5280 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:41 am

Workplace transmission from employees to other employees, or to, customers, suppliers, and anyone else.

NYT had an article out today about several airplane flights infecting passengers. Some of the problems included people removing their masks while on the flight, testing several days before the flight rather than hours before the flight, taking masks off in the terminal. On one flight, 2 passengers infected 2 flight attendants who then infected other passengers.

The employer issues are difficult legally with employees.

.


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