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airsail
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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby airsail » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:15 am

Qantas requires vaccination prior to boarding
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-55048438

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Dave_5280 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:32 am

airsail wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:15 am
Qantas requires vaccination prior to boarding
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-55048438
The article makes it sound like they are planning, or will require it in the future when the vaccines are available. But not yet.

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Dave_5280 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:56 am

One-quarter of the world may not get a Covid-19 vaccine until 2022, experts warn -

https://www.statnews.com/pharmalot/2020 ... ovaxi-who/

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Dave_5280 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:14 am

J&J's Covid vaccine is safe, generates promising immune response in early trial

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... 9rjFb3iYap

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Matteo V » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:34 am

Dave_5280 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:56 am
One-quarter of the world may not get a Covid-19 vaccine until 2022, experts warn -

https://www.statnews.com/pharmalot/2020 ... ovaxi-who/
Wait!....... that means 1 year to come up with a vaccine, then another year plus to get it to 75% of the population......

Dave, can you put up that "math modeling" link you posted a while ago, just one more time. I think we need some experts here.

But if vaccines are that slow to roll out.........hmmmmm....and you cant travel without vaccine papers, then maybe some more short selling of airlines is a good idea? Or, maybe that just showed us that the next major collapse is going to be attributed to the tourism industry.

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Dave_5280 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:44 am

There are some surprises.

Our office is next to a real estate title company and they are busy everyday with people coming in to close on home sales and mortgage loan refinancing. The rest of the building, 15 stories, is really quiet. The area I park in used to have 60 cars parked in it, this morning there were only 3 cars.

The bigger commercial property and liability insurance brokers are almost 100% closed down with everyone working from home. That’s very telling since they are afraid of the liability of bringing their own employees back into their offices. They evaluate liability risk for the biggest employers.

I was on a Zoom meeting call today, and one of the guys was funny when he introduced himself and then said, “I would like to retire, but with Covid, what’s the point?” I took that as he didn’t think he would enjoy retirement with everything closed down.
.

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Johnny Rotten » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:12 am

]Notice that when the red line stops, there is a "reward" for being good. But I think even an idiot can understand that the end of a red line is when a person stops asking questions.

I would ask everyone here.......When has "not asking questions" ever been the mark intelligence, freedom, or progress? Honestly, I didn't think the WHO was that dark, nor did I ever imagine they would think we are all that stupid.
Basically when you ask a question and out right refuse the evidence based answer.....
Especially when it's been explained in an intelligent, logical, fact based manner backed up by multiple rigorous and conservative scientific testing by experts in the field,
Yet you reject it because it doesn't conform to what your "gut" has already determined.....and so dismiss the response as an informercial/propaganda or untrustworthy.

Critical thinking is not just criticizing, .
That's not a mark of intelligence.
When posted publicly It spreads doubt and confusion in individuals who operate more on preconceived notions "gut instinct" or fears as oppose to true rational thought....that does not aide progress.

Criical thinking involves asking questions and processing the evidence.
Obviously you have FREEDOM to simply criticize on it's own....As others have the freedom to criticize your thought process.

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Matteo V » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:07 am

Johnny Rotten wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:12 am
Matteo V wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:28 pm
Dave_5280 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:43 am
Let’s flatten the infodemic curve -https://www.who.int/news-room/spotlight ... emic-curve
This is classic!!!

Dave, truly thank you!


I have always been wondering how to go about following an "approved" narrative, while still feeling like I am thinking for myself/looking deeper for more knowledge. Now I know.

Let's get started on the diagram from Dave's WHO link:
spothlight-missinformation.png
spothlight-missinformation.png (79.02 KiB) Viewed 187 times

Notice that when the red line stops, there is a "reward" for being good. But I think even an idiot can understand that the end of a red line is when a person stops asking questions.

I would ask everyone here.......When has "not asking questions" ever been the mark intelligence, freedom, or progress? Honestly, I didn't think the WHO was that dark, nor did I ever imagine they would think we are all that stupid.
1. Basically when you ask a question and out right refuse the evidence based answer.....
Especially when it's been explained in an intelligent, logical, fact based manner backed up by multiple
2. rigorous and conservative scientific testing by experts in the field,
3. Yet you reject it because it doesn't conform to what your "gut" has already determined.....and so dismiss the response as an informercial/propaganda or untrustworthy.

4. Critical thinking is not just criticizing, .
That's not a mark of intelligence.
When posted publicly It spreads doubt and confusion in individuals who operate more on preconceived notions "gut instinct" or fears as oppose to true rational thought....that does not aide progress.

Criical thinking involves asking questions and processing the evidence.
Obviously you have FREEDOM to simply criticize on it's own....
5. As others have the freedom to criticize your thought process.
K, let's start at the top of your remarks and go down through them:

1. First, you can certainly refuse an evidence based answer if the evidence is lacking, contradictory, or for a host of other logical justifications.

2. Nothing has been rigorously and conservatively done. This treatment has been rushed at a pace never before done in medicine. That is a fact and if you need evidence for it, talk to opponents or proponents of this treatment and they will agree on this reality. If that is not enough evidence, look at the timeline yourself.

3. You are confusing another response of mine. The infomercial video has obvious parallels to an infomercial from the 90's. While it is true I do "think or feel" this, it is also an obvious conclusion anyone would reasonably make upon comparing examples. And this is obvious. So if you are stating that the obvious can be dismissed as "just being my feelings", then we are not operating on the same level.

4. No rational person would equate unfounded criticism to critical thinking. However, critical thinking does form the basis for rational criticism. For example: Your equating my critical thinking to unfounded criticism is actually unfounded criticism of a carefully examined situation.

5. Yes, everyone has the freedom to state thier unfounded criticism of my thought process. But no one can state rational criticism without explaining thier thought process and citing their evidence, save when said evidence is obvious.


Now my critically thought out criticism of your response is that you have failed to refute anything I had stated with other than you saying "you're doing it wrong". When operating from a weak position such as yours, this is a good debate strategy in competition. However in this situation, it just exposes your position as extremely weak or nonexistent. Can you find some way to refute what I have stated?

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Havre » Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:16 am

I just think it is funny that WHO of all organizations think it is there job to tell people how to think. For me it is irrelevant if you agree or disagree with that chart - why would WHO feel the need to explain this? Is the point that if you do not agree with what WHO are saying then you are not thinking right? Is that your point Dave?

Smarter "people" than WHO have challenged the way you make an argument, how you interpret information etc. since Socrates. Unless you can actually concrete point to someone's, in this case post (or posts), where something is inconsistent, flawed (according to a certain way of thinking) etc. I honestly don't see the value.

Not that I mind most of those points they list. No. 7 is a bit strange of course because you tend to end up in this never-ending loop. I remember reading an article some years ago called something like "who audits the audit" and that is surprisingly relevant to many things in life.

The day WHO will upload videos and documents of people criticizing their policies, views etc. I might actually start listening to that organization. The way basically every single scientific paper will get hammered by other scientists (as long as we are staying away from the more political topics - which clearly Covid-19 has become). Wouldn't that be logical?

The only reason not to do so is because you are afraid that some will then "not understand" and suddenly agree with the critics. Or? So instead of risking those kind of "misunderstandings" you make charts telling people how they should think. Which then would require some confidence for individuals to disagree with them - or you will get classes of complete "outcasts" considered "crazy" by the majority (and they might very well be crazy in some/many cases - medically speaking - whatever that means).

And this is not me being "against" all organizations like WHO. I am very much supportive of the idea of WHO. The way I see the point of the original EU (but not what it has become). Or the WTO. Neither do I expect those organizations to be perfect. When you are capturing most of the world or a big geographical area things will be corrupt - because most of the world is. But if you can take small steps in the right direction I am all for it.

Small digression of how unprofessional some of these kind of organizations can be. The "Norwegian CDC" were asked if they ever considered the risk related to the swine flu vaccines. They said they did, but they never wrote it down or documented it anywhere. That is a bit more than 10 years ago in one of the more "developed" countries in the world (not necessarily developed in public administration though - but at least fairly low levels of corruption one would think). As they themselves are now saying "things weren't as professional back then" - that is a bit more than 10 years ago. Does that mean I think it should be shut down? No, but it is a hint of how sophisticated they really are. When Norway decided that people travelling to Norway should quarantine for 10 days in hotels (if they didn't own their own house or apartment) after arrival - that decision was taken in 4 hours without even including the "CDC" in the decision. So the main authority from a scientific point of view were not included in the decision and for whatever reason that decision had to be taken in 4 hours. I find that quite shocking regardless if they ended up with a good decision or not.

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Re: Covid vaccine

Postby Goavegas » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:53 pm

Does anyone know the size of a virus like the Corona and doe anyone know what size of particle can a face mask stop ?
The N95 type mask can stop particle not smaller than 30 micron,the Corona size is 10 Micron.
How do O know,Google.
What Google does not explain iscwhy we have to wear a mask that does not protect us from the virus,but this answer can be found elsewhere online.


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