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Re: Covid vaccine

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:53 pm
by Havre
Goavegas wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:53 pm
Does anyone know the size of a virus like the Corona and doe anyone know what size of particle can a face mask stop ?
The N95 type mask can stop particle not smaller than 30 micron,the Corona size is 10 Micron.
How do O know,Google.
What Google does not explain iscwhy we have to wear a mask that does not protect us from the virus,but this answer can be found elsewhere online.
Good question. The "Norwegian CDC" early on (as most others seemingly) went out and said masks are not necessary. Then you had politicians openly saying (months later) that masks would be a good idea just to "signal" how "dangerous" Covid-19 is (this was openly said - so not some sort of conspiracy). The "CDC" were still skeptical and according to their calculations wearing masks in Oslo would "stop" 3 cases per week if everyone wore masks (this was in the summer when there were less spread - so now that number would be higher than 3). And now there is widespread recommendations to wear masks - even if they are not mandatory in that many situations (walking between tables in restaurants, public transport if you can't keep distance etc.).

God knows what changed. And if masks worked nearly as well as many seem to claim you got to wonder why the spread is just increasing in many European countries. I have been in online-meetings with people wearing masks even if they are basically alone in the office.

I get the point with spit. If you sneeze or occasionally when you talk, but you can't stop airflow with any of the masks we are talking about. Breading heavily you are actually creating small "jet streams" on the side of the mask. It would stop the spit, but not airflow.

Not that I care much about masks. I wear mine when I am asked to. And I wish they had been more effective than they seemingly are.

Hopefully Amazon won't shut down this board for you asking that question.

Re: Covid vaccine

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:59 pm
by Havre
https://legemiddelverket.no/nyheter/mel ... 3YNYvrxvAU

We are now up to 23 reported deaths after people have been vaccinated in Norway.

The quote states that "normal side-effects" might have led to elderly sick patients dying from the vaccine.

The total number of Covid-19 "deaths" are now around 500 in Norway. So close to 5% of total deaths from Covid-19 are now potentially reached by the vaccine. Let's hope it won't catch up any further.

Re: Covid vaccine

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:18 pm
by Greenturtle
Goavegas-
The virus may be small but is often attached to larger particles such as micro water droplets or dust. Also, particles of this small a size that are unattached to something larger fly around in a more erratic way and thus are actually more likely to get caught in filter than particles that are larger ( but still smaller than filter openings). Doctors wearing n95s can work with covid patients and not get infected themselves for quite some time. That tells you something.
Sincere best wishes for all in their decisions.

Re: Covid vaccine

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:22 pm
by Havre
Greenturtle wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:18 pm
Goavegas-
The virus may be small but is often attached to larger particles such as micro water droplets or dust. Also, particles of this small a size that are unattached to something larger fly around in a more erratic way and thus are actually more likely to get caught in filter than particles that are larger ( but still smaller than filter openings). Doctors wearing n95s can work with covid patients and not get infected themselves for quite some time. That tells you something.
Sincere best wishes for all in their decisions.
Most people can live with someone without getting infected. So not sure how much that proves.

And if N95s are working that well why are most of us wearing something completely different? Wear a N95 if you can get hold of one, but otherwise who cares? I could support that.

Re: Covid vaccine

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:43 pm
by Havre
One of Norway's best known medical doctors just tested positive. Fairly random. The news broke just now.

At least now he will be immune he says :D

He should be careful spreading things like that - Facebook might shut down his account :D

Re: Covid vaccine

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:31 pm
by Dave_5280
Havre wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:22 pm
Greenturtle wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:18 pm
Goavegas-
The virus may be small but is often attached to larger particles such as micro water droplets or dust. Also, particles of this small a size that are unattached to something larger fly around in a more erratic way and thus are actually more likely to get caught in filter than particles that are larger ( but still smaller than filter openings). Doctors wearing n95s can work with covid patients and not get infected themselves for quite some time. That tells you something.
Sincere best wishes for all in their decisions.
Most people can live with someone without getting infected. So not sure how much that proves.

And if N95s are working that well why are most of us wearing something completely different? Wear a N95 if you can get hold of one, but otherwise who cares? I could support that.
Maybe, but I know 5 families and after 1 person got infected, the rest of them got infected.

Re: Covid vaccine

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:38 pm
by Havre
Dave_5280 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:31 pm
Havre wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:22 pm
Greenturtle wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:18 pm
Goavegas-
The virus may be small but is often attached to larger particles such as micro water droplets or dust. Also, particles of this small a size that are unattached to something larger fly around in a more erratic way and thus are actually more likely to get caught in filter than particles that are larger ( but still smaller than filter openings). Doctors wearing n95s can work with covid patients and not get infected themselves for quite some time. That tells you something.
Sincere best wishes for all in their decisions.
Most people can live with someone without getting infected. So not sure how much that proves.

And if N95s are working that well why are most of us wearing something completely different? Wear a N95 if you can get hold of one, but otherwise who cares? I could support that.
Maybe, but I know 5 families and after 1 person got infected, the rest of them got infected.
That would be highly highly unusual.

Been quite a lot of research done on this. If it was anything close to a given people in for example Norway would most certainly moved to a hotel or a facility that wouldn't place other household members at risk. Norway is small enough and got resources to do so.

Re: Covid vaccine

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:34 pm
by Matteo V
Havre wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:38 pm
Dave_5280 wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:31 pm
Maybe, but I know 5 families and after 1 person got infected, the rest of them got infected.
That would be highly highly unusual.

Been quite a lot of research done on this. If it was anything close to a given people in for example Norway would most certainly moved to a hotel or a facility that wouldn't place other household members at risk. Norway is small enough and got resources to do so.
Kind of, on both of your accounts.

First, you have to take into account that this virus is highly transmissible.

Second, you have to take into account that there is somewhere around 80% asymptomatic infection rate.

Third, asymptomatic infection is not well defined. Does it mean as mild as "fatigue" as the only symptom? Do you have to cough 3 times during the infection? Does one cell need to be infected, and result in a single, or multiple viral replications?

Fourth, the pcr test is going to find the virus in your sample if you live in close quarters with a symptomatic person, whether or not you ever have a single cell of yours invaded by a single virus.


These are the reasons why both of you are correct, from a certain point of view. And it is also why there is no actual answer to the household transmission question.

Re: Covid vaccine

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:29 pm
by Matteo V
Havre wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:38 pm
Been quite a lot of research done on this. If it was anything close to a given people in for example Norway would most certainly moved to a hotel or a facility that wouldn't place other household members at risk. Norway is small enough and got resources to do so.
As to Harve's point about putting infected people in hotels - there is simplt not enough capacity. If you were actually in a locality where the capacity did exist, there would be other problems. The main one would be that a single parent, or if both parents were symptomatic, there would be no child care for a potentially infected child.

This brings up how comparatively benign this virus actually is. There is less of a concern for a parent who is symptomatic harming their child by transmitting the virus to their healthy child, than there is for getting in an accident on the car ride to grandma's house to be babysat........ and that leads to the other logistical issue. You actually would preferr potentially infected kids to be placed in the care of a positively infected young adult, instead of in the care of a healthy grandparent.

And now we have another great lead in! If this virus was actually of any significance, we wouldn't have sick parents caring for healthy children. Just imagine a virus with a barely significant 5% death rate across all ages. With our crazy hypochondriact mentality created by our exposure to the medical propaganda created for this virus, the proportional insanity level would be 10 to 100 times worse.

The scariest things about Covid-19 are not directly related to the virus. They are:

1. Our overreaction to this insignificant virus - an overreaction which has created nearly every problem we have with it
2. Our our complete denial that eventually humanity will face a "real" epidemic that does cause real destruction of humanity from the virus itself, and not just our over reaction
3. And the fact that we are not addressing the short comings of worldwide healthcare's capacity to actually even have a minor positive impact on a future virus with a 5% death rate, let alone one with a 10% to 20% death rate.

Re: Covid vaccine

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:38 pm
by alexeyga
Just had a meeting with a client who's a large supplier of coffins.

Naturally couldn't resist the urge to pock them with the question:

"If we were to believe everything in the news - you guys must be running around the clock with no time for even a nap?"

To which we've got a rather unsurprising (for me) answer:

"You guys should watch less news and get out more"

The gist of the conversation which followed comes down to:

-In average - outside of all "pandemics" - in the area they serve there are 180 deaths / day.
-They've seen a slight spike in deliveries back when the whole thing unrolled (March/April 2020)
-But as of June 2020 they were running the exact same, usual 180/day average.
-Hospitals and doctors (in Canada) are paid big time for every declared "Covid"-related death

Not making any points here, but I do believe these guys more than I do believe BBC, CNN and all officials sources put together.