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Predictions for Ram Airs in 2021

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Predictions for Ram Airs in 2021

Postby Pump me up » Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:57 pm

Well, it's that time of year again. Most of us have limped into 2021 in a world ravaged by the Wuhan virus. Still, it’s better than swimming into 2021 with a wet sleeping bag.

PREDICTIONS
1) Ram airs will continue to fail in competitions:
e.g. http://www.worldkiteboardingleague.com reveals a dearth of ram air "talent" in the upper ranks (freestyle, surf style, big air, etc). History will repeat this year: ram airs will crash and burn in ALL significant competitions.

2) Inferiority reinforced by kite designers:
One of the world’s most respected kite designers and erstwhile designer for FLYSURFER, Ralf Groesel, had this to say about ram airs recently, confirming EVERY suspicion ever raised about these inferior kites: “… it’s the Tube-kite that stands victorious. From a designer’s point-of-view it shines in every aspect; its simplicity in design is the key to controlling its complexity. Tube-kites rule most of the sport-related requirements… Soft-kites have an approximate market share of 4%, meaning that 96% of all kites sold worldwide are Tube-kites. This figure basically validates the success of the concept. Without being too sarcastic, you have to be a believer to think that Soft-kites are the future of the kite market…” For the full epiphany and admission, please check-out this link: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2400039 With comments like this from respected kite designers, it is becoming harder and harder for ram lovers to justify their purchases.

3) Despite attempts to hide problems, they will keep leaking out:
1) Problems with mixers: unstable, unpredictable, and time-related deterioration in flight characteristics, e.g.
viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2392205 and viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2404999.
viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2407229&sid=d7f6a ... a136c4a103
http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... 58&start=0
e.g.
Kamikuza wrote:Have you done a mixer test and checked your SPL length? SPL = spare parts line = the bright yellow lines that go through the pulleys... they can shrink A LOT and bork up the handling…
joffaburger wrote:Moved to a foil kite 5 years ago (flysurfer pulse 10m)... I found after 6-9 months that the RAM started performing very poorly especially in gusty conditions I assume this was due to bridle stretching, I did manage to trim the bridle regularly to what I thought was intended spec however as already stated these are complicated bridles with many attachment points and I'm not sure if I did a perfect job! In the end I couldn't get the kite to feel anywhere near how it performed during the first 3 - 6 months of it's life. I think the kite and the bridles became quickly blown out...The kite was expensive and an attempt to resell the kite at half its purchase price failed...
4) Slowness due to trapped air:
viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2408683&sid=d7f6a ... a136c4a103

5) Ridiculous fragility and lifespan:
viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2407560&sid=d7f6a ... a136c4a103

Ignore the lies. Ignore the propaganda. Ram airs ARE aerodynamically inferior compared to inflatables.

:pump: ………. Pumpy
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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2021

Postby PullStrings » Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:55 pm

Inferior yes
Proof
We are not seeing any Ram Air Wingsurf Wings
Market share 0%
Last edited by PullStrings on Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2021

Postby Matteo V » Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:06 am

Pump me up wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:57 pm
Well, it's that time of year again....

:pump: ………. Pumpy
Pumpy, do you think inflatable Aluula LE kites will finally replace foil kites on the snow?

How about in racing - will the performance edge of foil kites finally be matched with an Aluula inflatable?

Once we get Aluula canopy fabric, do you think Aluula foil kites will come onto the market, removing any equivalency achieved from Aluula being used in tubies?

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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2021

Postby revhed » Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:22 am

Pump me up wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:57 pm
History will repeat this year: ram airs will crash and burn in ALL significant competitions.
FALSE!
FAKE NEWS!
SIMPLY NOT TRUE!
RAM AIR KITES WILL WIN MOST IF NOT ALL KITE BOARD HYDRO FOIL RACES THIS YEAR JUST LIKE LAST YEAR!
PERIOD!
ONCE AGAIN, F U, P M U! :angryfire:
RH

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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2021

Postby cor » Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:36 am

My prediction for Ram Airs 2021 is that PMU will open a new thread about this next year with the same troll arguments.
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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2021

Postby Baptiste_FR » Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:05 am

Matteo V wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:06 am
Pumpy, do you think inflatable Aluula LE kites will finally replace foil kites on the snow?

How about in racing - will the performance edge of foil kites finally be matched with an Aluula inflatable?

Once we get Aluula canopy fabric, do you think Aluula foil kites will come onto the market, removing any equivalency achieved from Aluula being used in tubies?
I should say something funny to stay in the same vibe as this topic, but Matteo raised some serious and interesting points.
Leaving the price factor aside, I think that for most riders (mainly twintip and surfboard), a LEI kite is more user friendly and with this new material, the weight of tube kite is decreasing and closing in to the "foil kite" (which was the main argument for RAM kite).

In my opinion, designer/brand should focus on the bladder material which still represent 20 to 30% of the weight of a LEI kite.

However, for specific use (racing, very light wind, snowkiting or mountainboard / landboard) the RAM kites are still relevant : they are very very efficient (upwind angle) and can handle crash on land better.

It will be very interesting to read this same post in 2-3 years to see if the new materials really deliver and are accessible to every brand and every rider.

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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2021

Postby TheJoe » Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:34 pm

Baptiste_FR wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:05 am
Matteo V wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:06 am
Pumpy, do you think inflatable Aluula LE kites will finally replace foil kites on the snow?

How about in racing - will the performance edge of foil kites finally be matched with an Aluula inflatable?

Once we get Aluula canopy fabric, do you think Aluula foil kites will come onto the market, removing any equivalency achieved from Aluula being used in tubies?
I should say something funny to stay in the same vibe as this topic, but Matteo raised some serious and interesting points.
Leaving the price factor aside, I think that for most riders (mainly twintip and surfboard), a LEI kite is more user friendly and with this new material, the weight of tube kite is decreasing and closing in to the "foil kite" (which was the main argument for RAM kite).

In my opinion, designer/brand should focus on the bladder material which still represent 20 to 30% of the weight of a LEI kite.

However, for specific use (racing, very light wind, snowkiting or mountainboard / landboard) the RAM kites are still relevant : they are very very efficient (upwind angle) and can handle crash on land better.

It will be very interesting to read this same post in 2-3 years to see if the new materials really deliver and are accessible to every brand and every rider.
Lol your new here but feel free to look back at Good Ole Pump's posts. He does this every year. Been banging the horns on just how bad they are for at least a decade now. He is dedicated I will give him that.

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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2021

Postby naishdude » Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:02 am

it's that time of the year again :rollgrin: :rollgrin: :rollgrin: :rollgrin: :rollgrin:
peacePMU :thumb: :thumb:
:cool2: :cool2:

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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2021

Postby Matteo V » Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:32 am

TheJoe wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:34 pm
Lol your new here but feel free to look back at Good Ole Pump's posts. He does this every year. Been banging the horns on just how bad they are for at least a decade now. He is dedicated I will give him that.
There has been no other forum user in the history of kiteboarding who has faciltated this conversation more than Pumpy.

Pumpy, you're my hero......(Ferris Bueller's Day Off)

You have allowed the discussion to show the actual superiority of foils in many of the situations we have always suspected. All of this productive discussion was because you were allowed to create a narrative to be disproven.

Sometimes a false narrative is more useful in getting to the reality of the situation, than even a simple statement of that reality.

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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2021

Postby Pump me up » Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:50 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:06 am
Pumpy, do you think inflatable Aluula LE kites will finally replace foil kites on the snow?
How about in racing - will the performance edge of foil kites finally be matched with an Aluula inflatable?
Once we get Aluula canopy fabric, do you think Aluula foil kites will come onto the market, removing any equivalency achieved from Aluula being used in tubies?
Hey Matteo and Baptiste,
It depends on the context. I think the future for COURSE RACING is neither inflatable nor ram air; it is likely to be a rigid-framed kite, similar to a hang-glider. Inflatables (including those made from Aluula) will continue to dominate in all other aspects of the sport for safety, reliability, ease-of-use, and general performance. Hang-glider-like kites are inevitable. Birds, wasps, stunt kites, and planes are rigid. ALL high performance aircraft (eg hang-gliders vs paragliders) have rigid structures. Rigid hang gliders out-perform soft paragliders on all measures. Interestingly, the trend in paragliders is towards increased rigidity, e.g. stiff mylar reinforcements, plastic stiffeners in the leading edges and carbon fibre rods sewn into the ribs. These stiffening innovations have resulted in paragliders that are so successful in competition that old-style soft gliders are no longer competitive. Another major weakness of the soft structure of ram airs is a lack of tactile feedback. Ram air kites are soft so the feedback is soft, sloppy, and imprecise. The more rigid a kite is, the more nuanced is the feedback to the rider, e.g. kite position, speed of turn, and gradations of power delivery.
Cheers,
:pump: ........... Pumpy


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