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Predictions for Ram Airs in 2021

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Pump me up
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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2021

Postby Pump me up » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:15 am

madworld wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:04 am
Ram air kites should be only used with boat support, the lines, bridles, and kites sewing of the kite are fragile and break all the time. You can not self rescue, they create quit a burden on the local rescue services were I kite.
:thumb: +1

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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2021

Postby cor » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:24 am

madworld wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:04 am
You can not self rescue
"You" meaning you and PMU I guess :lol:

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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2021

Postby dave1986 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:00 am

@Pump Me Up - I am impressed with your stamina and perseverance on this topic. You have continued this topic on Kiteforum.com for almost 18 years years now (see viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5659).
Always makes me laugh when I see the topic pop up each year!
Unfortunately for you, even after 18 years of telling us all how inferior ram air kites are, they're still here, and people are still buying them! Ram airs aren't for everyone, but they have their own unique and different qualities and are certainly superior to inflatable kites for light wind and racing.

I notice that your Kiteforum 18th birthday is coming up in a few days...Although I doubt you'll grow up! :lol:
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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2021

Postby Ice101 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:49 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:08 am
Pump me up wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:06 am
Ice101 wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:02 am
Ram airs are only just starting to show you the advantages actually since the invention of the soul. The soul ... BLA BLA BLA lies and exaggerations
It's the same old, tired tune. Every year ram lovers make ridiculous claims about how the latest ram air kite will "dominate." Their kites then go on to get blown out of the water. For example, ram lovers claimed that various kites from Flysurfer (Psycho, Silver Arrow, Warrior, Voodoo, Titan, Soul, Insert Name Here..... etc) would beat inflatable kites on X, Y, or Z parameters. It never happens.

Ignore the lies. Ignore the propaganda. Ram air kites are aerodynamically inferior cf inflatables and nothing can change this.

Pumpy ............... :pump:
Ice 101 wasn't around for most of depower foils history, apparently.

Ozone had decent foils back in the 05's. And decent is an understatement as they were better than any inflatable at the time. HQ dominated with better designs than Ozone with the Montana (v5, v6, v7), and the Matrixx (v1 15m only) around 2010.

Then Elf and Ozone finally surpassed HQ with the entry of depower race kites to the market in the 2015's. Eventually giving us the Chrono 2. And that is where we are at right now



But up until a few years ago, Flysurfer was busy making everyone think big foilkites sucked. There was really no way to sell a Speed Series (2-5) to someone who actually tried one against another manufacture's big kite. Even Pansh kites caught up with Flysurfer Speed series in 2018 with the Pansh A-15. But lots of kiters ordered Speeds "sight unseen" back in the day and learned to hate light wind. So giving Flysurfer credit for finally catching up to 2010 in 2018, is a bit of a stretch. Maybe focus on the success of the "Peak". That is Flysurfer's only real claim to fame.
Yea but none of the other perfected the one line relaunch which makes them relaunch better than Lei especially with the ability for them to be reverse launched as well as one line. And now that is possible it opens up more possibilities for rams and this will be worked on and future models will the future.

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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2021

Postby joriws » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:17 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:08 am
Then Elf and Ozone finally surpassed HQ with the entry of depower race kites to the market in the 2015's. Eventually giving us the Chrono 2. And that is where we are at right now
You write your own history? High AR race foil kites existed a looong time before that.

Go to world of Wissa and see which kites dominated the ice kite racing scene - the Russian HA race kites. Here is a picture from 2011 as an example, Elf and ParaAvis high aspect *foil*-kites among few Speed3 and some last place holder LEI kites. Elf just brought "Wissa"-kites to "summer" racing scene and did well - then Ozone woke up developing Chrono v1 and J.Heineken was the racer to use foil kite I recall on SF-bay hydrofoil nationals (or something) blasting LEIs with minutes marginal. I think he swapped his LEI kite to foil on last race from seeing in long video I cannot find anymore. PMU filed copyright claim to remove the evidence of inferiority? :naughty: ? But the HA foil kites were known on Wissa side long time ago before your "history" Matteo V.

This is just an example pic I dig out - I am not bothering to dig pics/videos deeper if those kites were used earlier. 2011 was easy find.
https://www.wissa.org/search/label/2011

Image

--

Good memories to search old race videos, but I did not find the one I was looking for. I think it was 2014 and remember Golden Gate..

May 2014 Kite Foil National - people still lived in dark ages..


a year later after Heineken HF blasting with Chrono :) 0% "superior" LEI were used.. :bye:


--
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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2021

Postby madworld » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:32 pm

cor wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:24 am
madworld wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:04 am
You can not self rescue
"You" meaning you and PMU I guess :lol:
Your an idiot.

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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2021

Postby bigtone667 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:07 pm

How do Peak4's fit into this argument? They are not RAM air kites, but share most of the "advised" limitations.

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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2021

Postby Matteo V » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:45 pm

bigtone667 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:07 pm
How do Peak4's fit into this argument? They are not RAM air kites, but share most of the "advised" limitations.
It's all about the innovation with the ability to drift on the v4. There are other things with the peak series (packability, safety, low lift but massive pull for the size), but drift is what sets it apart. Still, that property mostly relates to hydrofoiling, and not other kite disciplines.

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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2021

Postby Matteo V » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:03 am

joriws wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:17 pm
Matteo V wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:08 am
Then Elf and Ozone finally surpassed HQ with the entry of depower race kites to the market in the 2015's. Eventually giving us the Chrono 2. And that is where we are at right now
You write your own history? High AR race foil kites existed a looong time before that.

Go to world of Wissa and see which kites dominated the ice kite racing scene - the Russian HA race kites. Here is a picture from 2011 as an example, Elf and ParaAvis high aspect *foil*-kites among few Speed3 and some last place holder LEI kites. Elf just brought "Wissa"-kites to "summer" racing scene and did well - then Ozone woke up developing Chrono v1 and J.Heineken was the racer to use foil kite I recall on SF-bay hydrofoil nationals (or something) blasting LEIs with minutes marginal. I think he swapped his LEI kite to foil on last race from seeing in long video I cannot find anymore. PMU filed copyright claim to remove the evidence of inferiority? :naughty: ? But the HA foil kites were known on Wissa side long time ago before your "history" Matteo V.

This is just an example pic I dig out - I am not bothering to dig pics/videos deeper if those kites were used earlier. 2011 was easy find.
https://www.wissa.org/search/label/2011

Image

--

Good memories to search old race videos, but I did not find the one I was looking for. I think it was 2014 and remember Golden Gate..

May 2014 Kite Foil National - people still lived in dark ages..


a year later after Heineken HF blasting with Chrono :) 0% "superior" LEI were used.. :bye:


--
NICE PIC! And it makes my argument for me....thanks again. The Speed Series was the slowest and most "park and ride only" of any foil made. And look, there are 3 of them in the top of the pac from that camera angle. Thus those other high aspect race kites must have been on par with the Speed Series.

So if anything, Flysurfer set the bar low, making it easy for other companies to have success, but at the same time holding back development.

Whether by genius, or luck, HQ had a semi-race kite that could easily be used for freestyle with loops in the 2010's. Then in the 2015's the Chrono 1 race kite, changed into a freestyle freeride kite (Chrono2) surpassing it.


What you seem to be on about is "racing". And yes, high aspect kites were around before my time line and yours in many forms, such as non depower traction/buggy race kites. But the evolution of stable, all around, multi capable, mid to high aspect ratio depower kites does fit my timeline. Credit also definitely goes to those players I mentioned on that timeline.

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Re: Predictions for Ram Airs in 2021

Postby airsail » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:29 pm

As a long time foil kite user I only agree with Pumpy on one point, unassisted self landing of a foil kite in higher wind ranges. Unassisted meaning no hooks, anchors or other devices, just get to back to the beach and drop the kite on the sand. I keep an Ozone Edge in the quiver for those days when I may have to self land in high winds, much easier and safer but not the performance of a foil kite.
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