Downloops on surfboard

[Pheniks]

A lot of good pointers! This will surely help me on my next sessions thank you!!

[Peter_Frank]

As said, practice practice practice.

BUT, why do you downloop in the first place?

Doing so, you have some disadvantages, and no gain except for the fun feel.

Your path/curve on the wave becomes locked, you can not ride as free on the wave anymore, but have to follow the kite at certain points.

Also, there is a slight risk the kite will hit the water or wave, if you got slack lines say if riding on top of the lip.
If you had flown it up and around, kite would just drift while you surf the top of the wave downwind.

So apart from being fun, and occasionally if you got slack lines, you can put some downloops into play.

But as such, I dont see any advantages whatsoever, in "normal" DTL waveriding.

Whereas flying the kite up and over in your cutback, you are free to make an unhindered cutback.
The same goes for the bottom turn, if downlooping you can not turn tight up on the waveface anymore, impossible.

And if you want to ride past a big section of the wave, in a long carving arc - yes a downloop will work, but a normal upturn works just as well, just a lot more options and no risk.

IMO.

Peter

[RomeUtah]

Same problem for me: but I know why it happens to me:

1. to much edge pressure when starting the loop -> when pressure is released - it „bungees“ you towards the kite -> slack lines , no steering

2. beeing afraid and starting to go towards the kite BEFORE the initial steering. -> Slow kite turning

3. haven’t figured this on out
-> kite Position in the window (not how high, but how far forward the kite is)
- mostly beeing afraid to loop while going full speed
- step on the edge to reduce speed -> kite rushes to the side of the windwindow.
- if I crank the bar right then... very Slow kite turning...

Just my experience..

I think you partially nailed it on the head when talking about kite position. What is your intent to loop? I learned downloop gybes on the sb right off the bat in relatively calm water and with a big foil kite (takes a solid 45 minutes to get a 15m around). With that I would position the kite higher up at 12 and let it go to the side of the wind window is it is looping, so when it is rising it would pull me around. When there is too much power I would choke harder up on the steering line by literally grabbing and pulling in by hand and giving it a depowered propeller spin that you see the cloud kite rider dude do, or a lot of the kite foilers do. Jason logs of Adventure logs does it well. I use that technique out in the swell both river and ocean on a 24m lined ozone enduro when im starting outrun the kite. Not sure if its is proper technique or not, but I would jump on a face and literally surf the wave with my hands off the bar. When I pull on the steering line for a downloop, with my kite being at 11 above me and almost at 9 to the side, it loops super fast and without much power and is back in position to either pull me down the line to catch up to the next wave or to ride out. Obviously this is anecdotal and works well for me, but it is worth trying, especially if you are worried about a big yank on a strapless.
Cheers,
R.

[PullStrings]

OP not mentioning kite size or wind speed

Suggestions so far are not mentioning board speed and position

That is quite important because a higher wind downloop should have a board speed about 5 to 10 knots less than the windspeed

The downloop should not yank you but instead just give a slight smooth tug in the power zone and float during spin

It can be practiced with or without waves of course

Just commit your board speed by going on a fast broad reach with kite at 45 deg and pull with control the front of bar to loop smoothly

On waves it is a great move because it will position the kite nicely in the pocket to go down the line with kite just floating along as you surf

On aerial jibe transitions downloops you are in the air floating going off the wind then you yank nicely the front of the bar....so it is similar approach

People using footstraps can usually go into those downloops with a lot more speed making it easier when on the water

It is usually a bit easier to do the downloop going from heelside to toeside.... feeling more natural

As example with correct board speed and angle to the wind downlooping a 12 sqm in 25 knots or a 8 sqm in 32 knots is quite easy with practice

My 2 cents
Have fun

[purdyd]

BUT, why do you downloop in the first place?

Doing so, you have some disadvantages, and no gain except for the fun feel.

42 seconds in.

[Peter_Frank]

That downloop could just as well be a normal "flying over" instead - and it is not riding on the wave, but far in front of it 42 seconds in, so as said, fun to do, but no purpose as such apart from this - and here done where it wont hinder, like it often would when done on the wave

Pullstrings, the OP wrote it was in higher winds he had issues.

Assuming, if an average weight, we are talking about light winds being 8-9 m2 (big) kites.
And higher winds is 5-6 maybe even 7 m2 in its high end, so this would be where he had difficulties?
And riding waves, as otherwise, why use a surfboard?

Just guesssing, but he DID write it was in higher winds it was problematic for him, and needed advice.

Peter

[Herman]

Just to clarify my previous post regarding pushing with the slack hand. This not only speeds up the loop it will also tightens it and reduces the power. Use this coupled with the radius of the carve to control line tension.

If you sheet in and fully fishpole, much of the kite is stalled and you can tap the power back in after the kite has pivoted to the new direction and you have completed a lot of the carve.

Big open loop will require a wide open carve to match and control the line tension. Talking strong wind...........

An aim for the future could be to sheet in hard, sheet out and let the kite run to the edge of the window, fishpole a 180 deg pivot loop then sheet out and have the kite fly accross the window while you lay down a big open carve. Fun turning on a wave in cross onshore to head back to the beach as long as you can time it with the wave.

PS Amount of line tension, timing and radius of carve are largely a matter of building awareness and anticipation but pushing with the slack hand can be used for correction if you are getting more power than expected imho.

[Matteo V]

BUT, why do you downloop in the first place?

Doing so, you have some disadvantages, and no gain except for the fun feel.

Huge gain in available kite power-speed potential, with option to stall for faster redirect, and low angle of pull to increase your effective weight in the board. Those are the three main advantages.

There is a big difference between kite flying approach when strapless and just trying to simulate prone surfing, and strapped "full on" kitesurfing.

When I was doing strapless, I looped much less in jibes or on the face. When I went back to strapped, I really started to use every tool available to make kitesurfing more than just the sum of its parts. It gets a little hectic and you lose that laid back feel with the increase in force and speed, but going way past prone surfing limitations is just - more!

[purdyd]

That downloop could just as well be a normal "flying over" instead - and it is not riding on the wave, but far in front of it 42 seconds in, so as said, fun to do, but no purpose as such apart from this - and here done where it wont hinder, like it often would when done on the wave

Pullstrings, the OP wrote it was in higher winds he had issues.

The reason Carla is down looping is because she riding in side on and when she turns down the wave she loses a lot of power so she starts with a downloop. Watch the pros on the tour they do it in similar conditions,

I have no idea what the ops definition is of high winds.

I do know you said why does anyone do it and there is no use, And I offer my explanation. It can be very useful to downloop when riding waves in certain conditions.

Also, I see plenty of people ride surfboards in flat conditions even if you don’t understand it.

[Peter_Frank]

Very true purdyd.

So I am not sure the OP talks about riding on the waveface DTL in side or side onshore.

Peter