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Directional with straps for small Waves / Not for lightwind, not for freestyle

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Re: Directional with straps for small Waves / Not for lightwind, not for freestyle

Postby sarc » Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:53 am

For small waves it's hard to beat Ocean Rodeo Mako 150 or Shinn Speedball 18 (still a few on sale here and there). Same fun on wave but 200% more fun on the flats
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Re: Directional with straps for small Waves / Not for lightwind, not for freestyle

Postby 1234567Simon » Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:17 pm

Dear All!
Sorry for late reply.

Thanks to all of you, for some really good Ideas.

Just trying out a board, is almost impossible for me, so actually I can only read a lot, but it is alway a shot in the „dark“.

My resume:
Most boards for small waves also have this light Wind character.... and this is exactly not what I want.
Most of them are pretty wide (over 18inch / 46cm) with s wide tail.

So actually now I am searching a normal shortboard with maximum of being 18inch /46cm wide. With max 22liters ..

I have found some nice „reading“ boards.
Fone shadow 5“4 Looks nice but is expensive....
Also the RRD Cotán 4“10 or 5“0 look like a possibility.

I will look around.

Thanks a lot again.

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Re: Directional with straps for small Waves / Not for lightwind, not for freestyle

Postby TheRussian » Mon Feb 01, 2021 5:09 pm

The 4'10 Cotan looks nice, but I thought too wide, as it is as the name states, cut off nose & tail.

I was very tempted with the 4''8 Slingshot Sci Fly, but is looks like they have dropped this & only sell the 5ft now - but it has FCS, & I would only buy a board with futures.

My favourite (go to small board) is a Stretch Peter Trow 4'10 custom - sadly custom only, but a v good high wind wave board
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Re: Directional with straps for small Waves / Not for lightwind, not for freestyle

Postby MattyM » Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:39 pm

Quads have sadly gone out of fashoin in recent years. Shame as I personally think they are much better for the sort of 'general use' / 'shitty' conditions you describe than thrusters. Try and get a quad is my advice.
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Re: Directional with straps for small Waves / Not for lightwind, not for freestyle

Postby 1234567Simon » Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:41 pm

The cotan 4“10 is 17 inch narrow... that 43,2

If in any case, that’s supper narrow....

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Re: Directional with straps for small Waves / Not for lightwind, not for freestyle

Postby Matteo V » Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:02 pm

1234567Simon wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:41 pm
The cotan 4“10 is 17 inch narrow... that 43,2

If in any case, that’s supper narrow....
I am still a little perplexed on your style.

Why are you not going strapless? I mean small waves, no freestyle, and you prone surf?

I am definetly a proponent of shorter wider strapped boards while kiting. With straps, these boards can do every condition/wave from the big stuff on the outside, to the secondarys, to the mush .5m that makes it's way into the tide pool, to a (stupidly dangerous) trick on the way out of the tide pool, to boosting or rolls off the whitewater, to rolls off of a near breaking face, to taking another secondary back in if another kiter in a wave blocks your way out, to screaming upwind for to get away from the crowd coming down the line.

I get the impression you want to focus on only one aspect of the kitesurfing experience. If that is the case, I'd say go strapless.

But if you stick with straps, go wider with the board and try to use all the things the ocean throws you.
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Re: Directional with straps for small Waves / Not for lightwind, not for freestyle

Postby Slappysan » Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:45 pm

1234567Simon wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 12:17 pm
Just trying out a board, is almost impossible for me, so actually I can only read a lot, but it is alway a shot in the „dark“.
If there is a reasonably solid market for kite gear in your area you can always consider buying and reselling instead of demoing boards.

When I bought my OR Jester I got it on discount after the next rev came out, rode it for 4 months and then sold it locally for $50 less than I paid for it.

Your desire for a short board that is only 18" wide seems ideally suited to the Jester, you wont find many other short boards that narrow.
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Re: Directional with straps for small Waves / Not for lightwind, not for freestyle

Postby 1234567Simon » Mon Feb 01, 2021 9:28 pm

I fully understand.... Probably not very usual what I am doing.
Maybe my Celero 5‘8“ is just too big for me... it‘s soooo much work getting the turns tight.

Below I put a small pic of a big day at one off my Covid Alternativ spots. The waves are super Super high in the pic.

Usually after two hours of jumping around with a twin Tip, I get another kite two sizes smaller for wave riding.

Maybe if I get better, I will change to strapless, but right now I, I only see advantages with straps, except for the 5sec longer I need for the foot switching.

Again, thanks a lot for the input and Ideas.

And usually I am happy to have some other kiters around 😉

Br Simon
914AB73E-2CDE-437A-BE9D-8D6F7404BBC0.jpeg
914AB73E-2CDE-437A-BE9D-8D6F7404BBC0.jpeg (47.4 KiB) Viewed 617 times

Matteo V wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:02 pm
I am still a little perplexed on your style.

Why are you not going strapless? I mean small waves, no freestyle, and you prone surf?

I am definetly a proponent of shorter wider strapped boards while kiting. With straps, these boards can do every condition/wave from the big stuff on the outside, to the secondarys, to the mush .5m that makes it's way into the tide pool, to a (stupidly dangerous) trick on the way out of the tide pool, to boosting or rolls off the whitewater, to rolls off of a near breaking face, to taking another secondary back in if another kiter in a wave blocks your way out, to screaming upwind for to get away from the crowd coming down the line.

I get the impression you want to focus on only one aspect of the kitesurfing experience. If that is the case, I'd say go strapless.

But if you stick with straps, go wider with the board and try to use all the things the ocean throws you.

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Re: Directional with straps for small Waves / Not for lightwind, not for freestyle

Postby Matteo V » Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:24 pm

1234567Simon wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 9:28 pm
Maybe my Celero 5‘8“ is just too big for me... it‘s soooo much work getting the turns tight.
Got it!

Looks like the lake shore break I started off in. 1m max is what I had, and a barrel was something I could fit into only laying down...... on the best day.

So now my suggestion is to go all in on a quad board. And wider in quads can give you a faster turn than thrusters, IF you know how to ride them.

You need to ride a quad more hiked out than a thruster. Side loading the fins is the key to accessing the higher performance. But it takes some dedication to relearn how to ride a board coming from a thruster going to a quad.

The simple starting point for this is to apply the same sideways pressure to a quad finset that would normally be just enough to break the tail free on a thruster. When you do this, you will notice the quad fins "push back" instead of "breaking free".

Once you get the idea and feeling that quad fins "push back", really start to hike out and push the tail sideways as you accelerate through a fast turn. This will break you of the habit of standing straight up/perpendicular to the boards surface as you would do on a thruster.

At this point, you will begin to understand why quad fin setups are so popular on small wave boards. But there is quite a bit more to it than that so feel free to ask any more questions you have about quads if you get one.
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Re: Directional with straps for small Waves / Not for lightwind, not for freestyle

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:30 pm

Ha haa, dont go into the strapless hype, it is bull for many riders and locations....

Does not work at all in our conditions (you ride the same conditions)

Here we always advice those who has never surfed before, to learn strapless, so they learn the balance, and learn to use the edges of a surfboard, and front foot pressure and control - VERY different from a TT.

And later, when good and experienced, advance to straps, so you can ride harder faster and better aerials - only advantages :thumb:

I know this is not how the "world" sees it, but it works much better around here for the really good waveriders :rollgrin:

Back to the boards:

I have en idea you are a bit "stuck" to your TT riding style, thus seeking supersmall waveboards that rides a bit like these?
Which is not good for waveriding (the TT style), so you could try to ride for longer time (weeks/months) without using your TT at all.
This way you will get it into muscle memory, and can change easy on the same day later - just like one can change between hydrofoil or wingfoil or waveboards - WHEN you have got it into your backbone.

As I see it, most "small wave" boards are too wide and thick, agree with that - as for some reason some think it means low winds too - but it does not.

When windy and smaller waves, you should pick a lot smaller kite instead.
But also, for my liking which seems a bit like yours, avoid too thick and wide boards - and NO tailkick, as it kills control and glide and speed.
They very right compromise is essential, so it works in small waves and when wind.

Not too gunny either, as it will become good for bigger waves now, or when (over)powered, but not loose and fun in small waves now.
On the other hand, if you prefer to ride big fast powered bottom turns, they will work good.

But I think you will gradually move towards less gunny boards in the long run - as they got many advantages when windy and small waves - if you use a sufficiently small kite that is.

Not sure the Salerosa 5'8 is the target, as it will ride like a wakeboard like TT - also the quad fins gives it a very TT like style.

If you seek this, great.

But you will lose the classic cutback feel thrusters got.
If you want to go RRD, you could go Maquina or Barracuda. But I dont know the rocker lines of these - if too much, it is not my liking in smaller waves - but some like this.
They can handle loads of wind, for sure.

8) Peter
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