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Opinions wanted, is it better to self land in strong winds by punching out from 12 or 3/9??

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plummet
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Re: Opinions wanted, is it better to self land in strong winds by punching out from 12 or 3/9??

Postby plummet » Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:30 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:44 pm
Adventure Logs wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:40 am
On a foil, edge of the wind window and if you have the roof, while running upwind to help reduce the kite twisting over the ground. At 12, you’ll put too much stress on the lines as it falls through the power zone and have a greater chance of stressing/breaking a bridle line.
I use the brake handle all the time to land a foil kite from 12 o'clock, and have for years. Have you broken a bridle line or connection doing this?

Pull the brake handle with the kite at 12 in over powered conditions is definitely not the go. That is a recipe for a lofting waiting to happen.
When super powered you must land from the edge of the window.
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Matteo V
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Re: Opinions wanted, is it better to self land in strong winds by punching out from 12 or 3/9??

Postby Matteo V » Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:37 pm

plummet wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:30 pm
Matteo V wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:44 pm
Adventure Logs wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:40 am
On a foil, edge of the wind window and if you have the roof, while running upwind to help reduce the kite twisting over the ground. At 12, you’ll put too much stress on the lines as it falls through the power zone and have a greater chance of stressing/breaking a bridle line.
I use the brake handle all the time to land a foil kite from 12 o'clock, and have for years. Have you broken a bridle line or connection doing this?

Pull the brake handle with the kite at 12 in over powered conditions is definitely not the go. That is a recipe for a lofting waiting to happen.
When super powered you must land from the edge of the window.
How many years experience do you have with foils?

And a foil will always wind up in the back of the window anyway, so ho do you get the foil to stay on the side of the window when you initially put it on the edge?

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Re: Opinions wanted, is it better to self land in strong winds by punching out from 12 or 3/9??

Postby Adventure Logs » Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:04 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:44 pm
Adventure Logs wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:40 am
On a foil, edge of the wind window and if you have the roof, while running upwind to help reduce the kite twisting over the ground. At 12, you’ll put too much stress on the lines as it falls through the power zone and have a greater chance of stressing/breaking a bridle line.
I use the brake handle all the time to land a foil kite from 12 o'clock, and have for years. Have you broken a bridle line or connection doing this?
Yes I have. In high winds you are putting extra strain on bridle lines through the power zone.

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Re: Opinions wanted, is it better to self land in strong winds by punching out from 12 or 3/9??

Postby Herman » Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:51 pm

I am still developing my high wind foil flying techniques but at present I prefer to back stall land from the edge of the window rather than from Z.

As I see it, the advantages of backstalling from Z are that you can use symmetrical braking which makes a handle more straight forward to use.

Backstalling fom the edge requires asymmetric braking which for me is more easily controlled by the leaders, but can be done by holding the brake asymmetrically and/or using the other hand for any correction with a leader. Personally, for the landing I hold the bar with the bottom hand and transfer the top hand to the top leader. I then put the bottom hand on bottom leader. Most of the landing is controlled with top hand pull. I found it quite surprising how little pull on the top hand is required to stall the top of the kite. If I get it right the kite ends up parallel with the ground with TE about a meter off the ground and with the kite flying sideways crablike across the window. During this crab flying I am using the leaders to stop any further rotation or any kite lifting. As the kite approaches dead downwind I apply more pull on both leaders to make the kite sit. One of the tricky bits imho is getting hold of the leaders in the correct position and this bit should not be rushed. My kites don’t seem to develop much power during the crab flying phase but I have yet to really push the limits of backstall foil landings.

PS I don’t run into wind, I stay still and concentrate on kite control but ready to sink my weight to skud if necessary. The process does not last long once my hands are in position on the leaders. Avoid oversheeting in order to keep the kite in shape and not collapsing at edge of window.
Last edited by Herman on Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:17 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Opinions wanted, is it better to self land in strong winds by punching out from 12 or 3/9??

Postby plummet » Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:13 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:37 pm
plummet wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:30 pm
Matteo V wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:44 pm


I use the brake handle all the time to land a foil kite from 12 o'clock, and have for years. Have you broken a bridle line or connection doing this?

Pull the brake handle with the kite at 12 in over powered conditions is definitely not the go. That is a recipe for a lofting waiting to happen.
When super powered you must land from the edge of the window.
Since 2005.

I have flow foils in some of the most batshit crazy conditions you can imagine. Up to and beyond 50 knots. Most of that on land, landboarding or kite buggying.

Here's a time 11 years ago where I did the worlds first 24 landboard distance world record. That was in 25-35 knots with squalls pushing past 40.

https://vimeo.com/user4519783

The problem with landing on the brakes from the zenith is that you momentarily power up the kite before aoa of the kite takes it into stall. At that point you can be lofted. Then stalling through the powerzone drags you down the beach if you are powered enough. Try landing a 12m chrono or similar in 25-30 knots from the zenith. You will find out what floating through the sky above land is all about.

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Re: Opinions wanted, is it better to self land in strong winds by punching out from 12 or 3/9??

Postby Ozone Kites AUS » Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:36 am

Do it like I demonstrate in this video. I land like this at least half the times I kite as we often do downwinders and we all arrive at different times at the finish spot if no-one is around then I know I can get the kite down safely 100% every time. Had to do it the other day in a squall when I was overpowered on my 8m in 35knots and horizontal rain and sand, no propblem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waKLicEdwJk
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Re: Opinions wanted, is it better to self land in strong winds by punching out from 12 or 3/9??

Postby sarc » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:20 am

Ozone Kites AUS wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:36 am
Do it like I demonstrate in this video. I land like this at least half the times I kite as we often do downwinders and we all arrive at different times at the finish spot if no-one is around then I know I can get the kite down safely 100% every time. Had to do it the other day in a squall when I was overpowered on my 8m in 35knots and horizontal rain and sand, no propblem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waKLicEdwJk
Hello
could you shoot that video again, but this time at 35kn not 10kn please


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