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Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

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longwhitecloud
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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby longwhitecloud » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:23 am

You are up for a good for a good session in 14 knots wingfoiling if you are not heavy ( 85kg or less). Light riders can ride in rediculously light winds.

I had a look around insta at foiling influencers ( kite and windsurf), they gone to wing foil lala land

These things are very interesting the way they boom, slowly infultrate and infect the minds of staunch " ill never do that" people.

Slowly your crew starts to break ranks, then one day you show up to the beach... wtf happened! Lol

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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby jumptheshark » Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:13 am

@ LWC
Maybe. I still don't really care.

@ Slappy, Leo et al.

With great respect I disagree.

Of course drone is the way to make everything look cool. A pilot with the balls to fly low and close, even better, but there are loads of photogs with taste that could make a jaw dropping edit with nothing more than a long lens and decent taste in music.

Biggest problem, they need a subject !

Most of us initially saw the potential on video. Personally it was Caneri and Drexler. Then the original, Marc Leblanc and some Nicholas Caillou in there too. Since then its some guy I don't even know the name of riding moses stuff in some compilation, looping and kick spinning like its nothing. And massive respect to all the Ketos content that keeps my imagination grinding away. I expect great things from the gorge. In fact the big air footage from Adam Withington is pretty legit and Fred Hope is incredible and the first of a younger generation. There are a bunch of styles to flesh out on foil, and of course, in the end, wave foiling will be ridiculously impressive.

Have hope that a decent 360 cam will help out those filming themselves. Nothing in the lines, thats for sure!!!

Kite foiling has huge potential in a variety of stylistic directions.

Like any board sport it takes people to colour outside the lines.

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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby deniska » Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:24 am

there are certain things that you just cannot do with the lineless smallish kitelike thingy..
like sitting down, chilling and enjoying a cold one
or boosting airs in 10kts of wind..
or going stupid fast in marginal winds..
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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby OzBungy » Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:58 am

There's no way to predict the future or to assess what captures peoples imagination, but I would be surprised if wing foiling had a long lasting impact on kite foiling.

I have 70 hours of wing foiling and have reached a level of competence. It's fun, sort of, but the benefits are hugely exaggerated. The negatives are many and greatly downplayed. Kite foiling is almost all upside with very little downside.

Almost every wing foiling session includes moments of "I hate this fucken sport". Kite foiling is virtually pure unadulterated fun.

The simplest comparison would be driving a fat old van with an underpowered motor and no seats (wing foiling with no harness) vs driving a super hot hatchback with a fire breathing turbo and fitted racing seats (kite foiling and a carbon harness).

My feeling is the majority of wing foiling devotees are SUP and windsurf converts. People who are ignorant and/or afraid of kites.

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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby madworld » Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:07 am

Winging is the latest Hula-hoop. My turnoff is the gear is harder to transport and setup besides the weight of the foil and board carrying to the beach. I still love surf style kiteboarding, one attraction to kiteboarding was the light weight and compactness of the gear coming from a windsurfing background. Also the learning curve looks harsh, I have seen many struggle.

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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby slowboat » Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:15 am

OzBungy wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:58 am
.......

My feeling is the majority of wing foiling devotees are SUP and windsurf converts. People who are ignorant and/or afraid of kites.
That’s funny. Actually most devotees are people who love foiling first but see or have experienced the limits of using a kite to foil. The kite lifts too much and always needs line tension to fly. But some people need the kite to help hold themselves up and are uncomfortable free foiling. (Not saying that is you).

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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby longwhitecloud » Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:45 am

madworld wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:07 am
Winging is the latest Hula-hoop. My turnoff is the gear is harder to transport and setup besides the weight of the foil and board carrying to the beach. I still love surf style kiteboarding, one attraction to kiteboarding was the light weight and compactness of the gear coming from a windsurfing background. Also the learning curve looks harsh, I have seen many struggle.
I know a 12 year old, she got up for 20 seconds balancing on the foil - 3rd try. Had never foiled before. Had some good instruction/advice tho.

This side of earth it is no doubt the fastest growning thing seen since SUP (eg flat water sup!) exploded (and died sooo fast!).

When a kiteboarding organisation pumps money into another sport, you know they are following the $. Lets hope they are not using $ pumped in by kiters..

That would like be like a soccer organisation (the paying members), fuding rugby!!

I hope this is transparent.


The kite foilers that moved to wing foil have moved spots too - deep water launch spots - usually where no sane person would launch a kite. Foilers of any kind disappear at mid low tide at many spots.

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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby fluidity » Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:05 am

OzBungy wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:58 am
There's no way to predict the future or to assess what captures peoples imagination, but I would be surprised if wing foiling had a long lasting impact on kite foiling.
I have 70 hours of wing foiling and have reached a level of competence. It's fun, sort of, but the benefits are hugely exaggerated. The negatives are many and greatly downplayed. Kite foiling is almost all upside with very little downside.
Almost every wing foiling session includes moments of "I hate this fucken sport". Kite foiling is virtually pure unadulterated fun.
The simplest comparison would be driving a fat old van with an underpowered motor and no seats (wing foiling with no harness) vs driving a super hot hatchback with a fire breathing turbo and fitted racing seats (kite foiling and a carbon harness).
My feeling is the majority of wing foiling devotees are SUP and windsurf converts. People who are ignorant and/or afraid of kites.
Have to disagree with you there. Firstly, I can kite and have for almost 6 years. Not foil kiting yet. I windsurfed before that. Probably around 50 hours wing foiling myself so far, no foiling gybes yet but I see those who "progress" faster in that invariably are using foot straps which is a bit of a cheat.

I don't have moments of hating the sport. I think that's a personal thing? I instead have little advancements. Realisations, pushing my comfort zone, finding a smaller lighter foil gives me more feeling of the wave, getting that much further around in powered gybes before something goes wrong. I think moments or more of hating the sport is more a personal thing you have going with it than a universal thing!
There's other factors that come into it too. Are your local conditions small wave? Gusty? light/strong wind? Are you getting more pleasure out of learning or exhibiting skills already learnt?

At the moment(a moment that has so far lasted about 5 months from when I started buying gear, designing my own foils and making my own foils) I've had one kite session and an average of 3 sessions a week winging. Between child care, work and sleep I'm finding that winging gives me more opportunities to have a session up to 5 hours long at a stretch on a good day, I'm getting more quality sessions in now I have a more powerful second wing for light winds as well and my pumping has improved a lot.

Here's a critical thing you haven't brought up and for me (I'm 54), I need excersize and I'm only really driven by things that engage my mind. Wing foiling in non optimum conditions involves a lot of pumping of both foil and hand held wing. Like yesterday, I was out for about half an hour with my Ensis 6m and small foil in very marginal wind and then 5 hours in a stronger wind location with wind around 10 to 20 knots wind on my far less powerful Naish 5.3 where I could stay on foil much of the time only by pumping the foil and at times with the wing too. Kiteboarding is a very poor sport for excersize. At best your knees are jackhammering over the chop. Windsurfing can be far more energetic because every time you fall off in big surf you are swimming the sail and board around for your next waterstart and being interrupted by waves which can often reset your progress. Winging I'm also moving my arms and feet around as I go up wind over waves and it's involving the core of my body as well. Not as much as paddling but I'm getting a much more gymnastic-like workout in terms of the degree of movement of my body.

As I spend more time on the waves (Especially now I've gone down in size to the first foil I designed) I'm starting to feel the waves better. I don't have kitefoiling for a comparison but wingfoiling I'm learning to ride the waves, not instantly, but gradually moving my ballance focus from the wing to the waves.

I like winging how I can stop any time to have a chat with other newbies, I can easily swap gear to see how a different wing or foil feels or to help out another newbie by identifying a specific gear problem they can fix. I like that I don't have launching and landing concerns about safety of the public and of me when it's sketchy wind. I also like that people come up to me interested in learning and I don't have a bunch of safety issues to warn them about like with kiting.

I can't get big airs winging but I can't get the same body workout kiting either. it's a challenge and I need them!
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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby bragnouff » Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:43 am

fluidity wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:05 am
(...)
I can't get the same body workout kiting (...)
Depends how you kite, I guess... If you just mow the lawn on a seat harness, it's pretty gentle. But if you ride faster, more committed, then the body gets its serious workout. After a big boosting kite session, there's that tummy abs crunching feeling that stays with you for a couple of days. After a good session of strapless kitesurfing, the legs and lower back will remind you of what you've done. Few tricks unhooked will exercise your upper body for sure. And a kitefoiling session pushing hard on your legs will provide more of a workout than winging. Mostly because in a given duration, you're covering a good 50% more distance than when wingfoiling.
I tend to be exhausted after 2hrs of good kiting, it takes a bit more for winging.

In terms of workout, winging "wins" in terms of shoulder/arms workout and definitely on the cardio side of things. And that happens mostly in shitty conditions where lots of sustained pumping is required. We go out in that because of the novelty factor, but soon we'll also dismiss those flukey days where the fun/effort ratio is not that favorable...
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OzBungy
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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby OzBungy » Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:28 am

fluidity wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:05 am
...

Have to disagree with you there. Firstly, I can kite and have for almost 6 years. Not foil kiting yet. I windsurfed before that. Probably around 50 hours wing foiling myself so far, no foiling gybes yet but I see those who "progress" faster in that invariably are using foot straps which is a bit of a cheat.

...
I'm 64 and quite fit. I make about 80% of my gybes depending on the day (did a dry session the other day :D ). Still working on getting "aggressive" with the wave and the turns. Still strapless because I'm too slack to put straps on my board. 20 years windsurfing, 20 years kitesurfing, including about 5 years kite foiling.

Yes wing foiling is a harder workout. When I started wing foiling my GPS watch rated a session as 5 - Over reaching. Now I am fairly competent is rates them at 3.9 Advancing. My kite foiling sessions are rate 2 - Maintaining. If I choose to do a foil jumping session or some high power tacks I can push the session up to 3 - Impacting.

Thing is, I get to kite foil almost every day. The wind range and versatility is so great that I can do pretty much what I want, when I want, where I want. I have been choosing to sacrifice kite foiling days to try and take my wing foiling skills to the next level. My skills are building, but it's still a pretty pedestrian activity.

Personally I think hard exercise is the enemy of maintaining long term health and fitness. The wear and tear and injuries build up. You lose sessions because you're getting wrecked. It's much better to pace yourself and have lots of sessions with a few moments of high intensity to keep things interesting. That has worked for me with 60 years of surfing/windsurfing/kitesurfing/kitefoiling/wingfoiling as well as 30 years of paragliding (including 9 seasons in the Indian Himalayas).

The "hate" comes partially from the "kook" factor, and partially from the limitations of the equipment. There are quite a few people (often older people) who won't try new things because they're good at something and they don't want to be beginners again. I quite like acquiring new skills, but it's still annoying being a kook again. Worse is being stuck with all the negative things that come with the wing and the fat board and huge foil and a couple of leash ropes which creates problems that simply don't exist with a kite and foil.

I have an underlying mistrust of the marketing and hype around wing foiling. 80% of people are not going to master foiling gybes or tacks. They won't be pumping up on the foil in <10 knot winds. They won't be riding waves for kms. Most people don't even have access to a wave that will be ridable for any distance. Yes you can paddle a wing foil board back if things go wrong. But try that sometime. I have self rescued with a kite and foil, and paddled in with a wing and SUP foil. The kite self rescue is much easier and more fun. The wing foil wins when the wind picks back up during the paddle and you can foil the last bit in. Definitely wing foil if you don't have a beach to launch and land from, or if you have good waves to play with, or even because you just want to. Just don't portray it as this world beating be all sport for everybody. It's expensive and hard and clunky.

PS I have rescued a couple of windsurfers over the years with a kite and surfboard (not foil). The other day my kite mate broke a line as I was riding back after a wing foil upwinder. It was quite pleasant to sit and chat to him as he self-rescued back to the start beach. I could have rescued him by having him hang off the back of my board while I sit sailed back. He was going faster self rescuing.

PPS I did a speed run on my upwinder with an 8m kite and foil. I did the return 8km run in 16 minutes. On the wing foil I did the same run in 90 minutes. I got stuck for a while when the wind dropped a couple of knots. :roll: I have done several 40km out and return runs on a kite foil. I have never been stuck out with the kite foil during a coast run.

PPPS In order, every water sport has been supplanted by the next big thing. Surfing-Windsurfing-Kitesurfing (surfboard->tt->surfboard)-Kitefoiling-Wingfoiling. All those old sports are still here and still big in their way. People don't stop doing things just because something newer, and possibly better, comes along.
Last edited by OzBungy on Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:45 am, edited 2 times in total.


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