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Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

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fluidity
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Local Beach: Ngati Toa, Plimmerton, Titahi Bay, Waikanae, Petone, Seatoun, Lyall Bay, Eastbourne, Lake Wairarapa
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Style: Wave, jump
Gear: Late model Switch kites element and nitros,
DIY CAD ultra-concave wave twintips 1500 and 130mm with my own fin designs. Easy upwind, awesome carving. Switch Nitro 10m V7, Naish 5.3m Wing. Now focussing on Wingsurfing to rise to a new challenge. Building my own foils from my CAD design and 3D prints, built a CNC machine last year and now cutting designs with CNC as well as 3D printing.
Up to 3 DIY foil designs built and getting the hang of wingsurf foiling as we switch into 2021.
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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby fluidity » Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:29 am

bragnouff wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:43 am
fluidity wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:05 am
(...)
I can't get the same body workout kiting (...)
Depends how you kite, I guess... If you just mow the lawn on a seat harness, it's pretty gentle. But if you ride faster, more committed, then the body gets its serious workout. After a big boosting kite session, there's that tummy abs crunching feeling that stays with you for a couple of days. After a good session of strapless kitesurfing, the legs and lower back will remind you of what you've done. Few tricks unhooked will exercise your upper body for sure. And a kitefoiling session pushing hard on your legs will provide more of a workout than winging. Mostly because in a given duration, you're covering a good 50% more distance than when wingfoiling.
I tend to be exhausted after 2hrs of good kiting, it takes a bit more for winging.

In terms of workout, winging "wins" in terms of shoulder/arms workout and definitely on the cardio side of things. And that happens mostly in shitty conditions where lots of sustained pumping is required. We go out in that because of the novelty factor, but soon we'll also dismiss those flukey days where the fun/effort ratio is not that favorable...
Like with wind surfing and kiting the kook-level excersize is higher than the accomplished rider's level but I remember pumping the sail wind surfing and it was never as satisfying or as effective as pumping the hand wing when foiling. I can cycle my legs and the hand wing and feel a good boost of accelleration off just one good pump, it was never that effective when I was wind surfing and I was probably 20 kg ligher back in those days too. I think maybe we should limit ourselves to only 2 wings to keep it interesting :-D I just need to know that a gust will come if I'm patient and that's enough to inspire me :lol:

fluidity
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Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:20 pm
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Local Beach: Ngati Toa, Plimmerton, Titahi Bay, Waikanae, Petone, Seatoun, Lyall Bay, Eastbourne, Lake Wairarapa
Favorite Beaches: Plimmerton
Style: Wave, jump
Gear: Late model Switch kites element and nitros,
DIY CAD ultra-concave wave twintips 1500 and 130mm with my own fin designs. Easy upwind, awesome carving. Switch Nitro 10m V7, Naish 5.3m Wing. Now focussing on Wingsurfing to rise to a new challenge. Building my own foils from my CAD design and 3D prints, built a CNC machine last year and now cutting designs with CNC as well as 3D printing.
Up to 3 DIY foil designs built and getting the hang of wingsurf foiling as we switch into 2021.
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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby fluidity » Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:45 am

OzBungy wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:28 am
<cut>
Yes wing foiling is a harder workout. When I started wing foiling my GPS watch rated a session as 5 - Over reaching. Now I am fairly competent is rates them at 3.9 Advancing. My kite foiling sessions are rate 2 - Maintaining. If I choose to do a foil jumping session or some high power tacks I can push the session up to 3.

Thing is, I get to kite foil almost every day. The wind range and versatility is so great that I can do pretty much what I want, when I want, where I want. I have been choosing to sacrifice kite foiling days to try and take my wing foiling skills to the next level. My skills are building, but it's still a pretty pedestrian activity.

Personally I think hard exercise is the enemy of maintaining long term health and fitness. The wear and tear and injuries build up. You lose sessions because you're getting wrecked. It's much better to pace yourself and have lots of sessions with a few moments of high intensity to keep things interesting. That has worked for me with 60 years of surfing/windsurfing/kitesurfing/kitefoiling/wingfoiling as well as 30 years of paragliding (including 9 seasons in the Indian Himalayas).

The "hate" comes partially from the "kook" factor, and partially from the limitations of the equipment. There are quite a few people (often older people) who won't try new things because they're good at something and they don't want to be beginners again. I quite like acquiring new skills, but it's still annoying being a kook again. Worse is being stuck with all the negative things that come with the wing and the fat board and huge foil and a couple of leash ropes which creates problems that simply don't exist with a kite and foil.
I've been fully ready to be the kook learning to get the benefits later. Starting to feel the payoff as newbies and wanna-be newbies alike are now asking me questions and I can ease the road of others wanting to try a new sport.
I don't think I do "Hard exercise.". I do short burst and long bursts of differing intensities. If I can't hack it I simply fall off foil. That said, after a 5 hour session I sleep better than usual :lol: So far my injuries have been very minor. I always wear a helmet. Had a few minor bumps and some abrasions knelling on the board in early stages learning in nuking wind where I wasn't confident standing. Wetsuit neck rash which has practically dissappeared my last couple of sessions, I think because I spend a lot more time dry now.

It sounds like you are at a more advanced level than me but I really think you need to get a smaller foil for those average and windy days! It will be less draggy and that means less stress holding on to the wing as well. And you will regain some of the speed you lost switching out the kitefoiling for the wing foiling. I make my own foils so I made a first one that was too small to easily learn on, then a big one to learn on and now I'm back to my first one. 2650 sq cm for learning, 1800 for regular use and at some stage I'll drop to one around 1300 sq cm.

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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby MattyM » Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:06 pm

Maybe we'll call wingfoiling a 'proper sport' when they get their own forum, and don't have to rely on a kite forum to push their sport. Just sayin'. ;-)
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jumptheshark (Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:33 pm) • sonny2727 (Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:03 am)
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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby airsail » Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:49 pm

Out swell riding on my wing where I normally kitefoil. Straight downwind, carving across swells, but wings can’t cutback like a Kitefoil can, you have to gybe the wing to go back, then gybe it again to to complete the cutback, very clumsy.
On a Kitefoil it is just a flick of the wrist. Maybe a deal breaker.

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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby longwhitecloud » Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:09 am

MattyM wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:06 pm
Maybe we'll call wingfoiling a 'proper sport' when they get their own forum, and don't have to rely on a kite forum to push their sport. Just sayin'. ;-)
The kite industry is 100% driving it.$$$

Kiteboards magazine come with a free edition of Foiler Magazine.

Kiteworld release their own wingfoiling publication.

Almost all major kite companies are making wings now.

This forum has windsurfing section.

The GKA Global kite surfing association started the Global windsurfing association and is trying to control it by telling it's kite surfing representatives in different countries that they are now also the authority of wingsurfing.

The kite brands are getting their sponsored riders to post them riding wings on Insta.

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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby bragnouff » Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:32 am

well actually to be fair, it's not 100% driven by kite industry, since also the windsurf industry (starboard, Tabou, ... ), and the SUP industry (PPC, Smik, SIC,...) are driving it.

Fact is that there is serious cross pollination, the same way that kitesurfers came from different backgrounds, windsurfing of course, but also paragliding, kite flying, etc... And there was lots of talk about kitesurfing on windsurfing media back in the late nineties. Don't expect a clear cut differentiation here either.

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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:27 am

longwhitecloud wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:09 am
MattyM wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:06 pm
Maybe we'll call wingfoiling a 'proper sport' when they get their own forum, and don't have to rely on a kite forum to push their sport. Just sayin'. ;-)
Snip...

This forum has windsurfing section.

The GKA Global kite surfing association started the Global windsurfing association and is trying to control it.

Snip...
As far as I know there is not, have never been, a windsurf section on this forum.

I think it is great to share forum, as often the same who kitesurf and wingsurf (kitefoil and wingfoil to be precise) , and both gear and feel has a lot more in common than with windsurf/windfoil :thumb:

Windfoil is also a bit more like sailing, than surfing, in its nature.
Where kite and wing are often related to surfing.

8) Peter

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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby longwhitecloud » Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:35 am

bragnouff wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:32 am
well actually to be fair, it's not 100% driven by kite industry, since also the windsurf industry (starboard, Tabou, ... ), and the SUP industry (PPC, Smik, SIC,...) are driving it.

Fact is that there is serious cross pollination, the same way that kitesurfers came from different backgrounds, windsurfing of course, but also paragliding, kite flying, etc... And there was lots of talk about kitesurfing on windsurfing media back in the late nineties. Don't expect a clear cut differentiation here either.
That's true.

Examples of how these companies leverage their existing followers in one sport into another.

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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby windmaker » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:28 am

MattyM wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:06 pm
Maybe we'll call wingfoiling a 'proper sport' when they get their own forum, and don't have to rely on a kite forum to push their sport. Just sayin'. ;-)
1) Wingfoiling is physically more of a proper sport than kitesurfing.
2) There are already dedicated Wingfoiling forums.
3) Most Wingfoilers posting on this forum are, or were kitesurfers.
4) Can't recall seeing any brands posting to push the sport, just riders sharing the stoke.

You obviously don't Wingfoil and I must admit that when I first saw this sport I thought it looked stupid. I still believe it is one of those sports that feels better than it looks except in waves where the only best thing is prone surfing.

fluidity
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Posts: 449
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Local Beach: Ngati Toa, Plimmerton, Titahi Bay, Waikanae, Petone, Seatoun, Lyall Bay, Eastbourne, Lake Wairarapa
Favorite Beaches: Plimmerton
Style: Wave, jump
Gear: Late model Switch kites element and nitros,
DIY CAD ultra-concave wave twintips 1500 and 130mm with my own fin designs. Easy upwind, awesome carving. Switch Nitro 10m V7, Naish 5.3m Wing. Now focussing on Wingsurfing to rise to a new challenge. Building my own foils from my CAD design and 3D prints, built a CNC machine last year and now cutting designs with CNC as well as 3D printing.
Up to 3 DIY foil designs built and getting the hang of wingsurf foiling as we switch into 2021.
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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby fluidity » Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:29 am

windmaker wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:28 am
1) Wingfoiling is physically more of a proper sport than kitesurfing.
2) There are already dedicated Wingfoiling forums.
3) Most Wingfoilers posting on this forum are, or were kitesurfers.
4) Can't recall seeing any brands posting to push the sport, just riders sharing the stoke.
:thumb: Well said.


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