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Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:40 am

True, good we are surfers and not sailors :rollgrin:

It will always be a heated debate, as some will claim the written sailing text, meaning when stern passes the wind eye, you have jibed, no matter where the kite is.

Others will say you have carved doing this (or ridden waves DTL) , and you have only jibed when you also change feet position, otherwise it is carving to toeside or reverse.


One can defend both views, so there will never be consensus.

Because of foiling, as carving is relatively easy, whereas changing feet is almost impossible on a foil, many use the definition carve versus jibe, for differentiation between two very different things.

On a TT it doesn't matter :rollgrin:

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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby fluidity » Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:05 am

airsail wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:35 pm
A lot of beginner kite foilers will be pissed when I tell them a turn 180° to toe side and riding back the other way isn’t a gybe until they change their feet.
Another local very competent wind surfer started winging about 6 weeks ago. I was stunned to see him gybing until I looked closely and saw he had his feet in foot straps :roll: :lol:

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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby downunder » Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:39 pm

windmaker wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:35 am
tkaraszewski wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:03 pm
airsail wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:35 pm
A lot of beginner kite foilers will be pissed when I tell them a turn 180° to toe side and riding back the other way isn’t a gybe until they change their feet.
A lot of sailors would wonder how you can get from one upwind tack to the opposite upwind tack having neither tacked nor gybed.
- The concept of" toe side" riding does not exist in sailing.
- Not swapping sides on a small sailboat when manoeuvering usually ends with a capsize.
touché...

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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby Matteo V » Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:15 pm

windmaker wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:35 am
tkaraszewski wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:03 pm
airsail wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:35 pm
A lot of beginner kite foilers will be pissed when I tell them a turn 180° to toe side and riding back the other way isn’t a gybe until they change their feet.
A lot of sailors would wonder how you can get from one upwind tack to the opposite upwind tack having neither tacked nor gybed.
- The concept of" toe side" riding does not exist in sailing.
- Not swapping sides on a small sailboat when manoeuvering usually ends with a capsize.
You do swap sides without switching your feet. You just dont turn your toes around to point in the other direction.

When you jibe without a foot switch, you go from weighting your heels on the windward side, to weighting your toes on the new windward side. Your weight does go over to the other side, and your body even twists mostly around, while your feet remain in thier original position. Think of it as switching sides in a small sailboat, but without turning around when you get to the other side of the boat. Your weight has been transferred, you just have not re orientated yourself.


Personally, I'm not 100% comfortable on toe side for all maneuvers. So I jibe every time I intend to ride any appreciable distance (except on a wave).

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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby tkaraszewski » Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:50 pm

windmaker wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:35 am
tkaraszewski wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:03 pm
airsail wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:35 pm
A lot of beginner kite foilers will be pissed when I tell them a turn 180° to toe side and riding back the other way isn’t a gybe until they change their feet.
A lot of sailors would wonder how you can get from one upwind tack to the opposite upwind tack having neither tacked nor gybed.
- The concept of" toe side" riding does not exist in sailing.
- Not swapping sides on a small sailboat when manoeuvering usually ends with a capsize.
I'm curious what you call this maneuver:

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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby PullStrings » Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:41 pm

windmaker wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:35 am

- The concept of" toe side" riding does not exist in sailing.
- Not swapping sides on a small sailboat when manoeuvering usually ends with a capsize.
Toeside concept existed for me windsurfing
Would turn on wave face and jibe without switching feet and ride toeside the wave backwinding the sail....very fun

In light wind dinghy racing we would jibe and stay in center of boat facing forward with no swapping sides

If you change direction going through the eye of the wind with the nose of the board crossing the wind it's a tack

If you change direction and the nose of the board crosses to the other side with the wind hitting the back of your head and body you have jibed
Does not matter about your body and feet position after completion
All that really counts is what the nose of the water vehicle/directional foilboard & surfboard does in relation to the wind direction

When doing aerial tacks or jibes the feet don't move after landing and riding away
You can go from toeside land heelside or heelside land toeside

If you turn into the wind for trick it's a tack.. backroll kiteloop...backroll downloop...etc
If you turn off the wind for trick it's a jibe...forward downloop....table top downloop,,,etc

Off topic of course

Back on topic
There are more places to kite in the world with wind around 10 knots and no real wave / swells
Therefore winging cannot surpass kitefoiling ever
It's just trendy now
People get bored quick and want new stuff to do
Human nature
Last edited by PullStrings on Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby Flyboy » Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:52 pm

Surely, the revolutionary thing in wind sports (not to mention surfing proper) is the foil itself, not the power source. It's the hydrofoil that has opened up a whole new range of possibilities ... & that's what led someone to consider a hand-held wing as a possible power source. Imagine using a wing if you weren't on a foil - it would work, but it would be a slow, awkward activity.

Of course, they are promoting the crap out of winging - it's a great new revenue stream for the kite (& other) companies. It seems to me that, at the end of the day, the advantages & disadvantages of wing foiling vs kite foiling are fairly specific & depend a lot on local conditions & circumstances. Incidentally, 6 -7 knots for kite foiling is not a fantasy: in Cabarete watched the race foilers go out when the wind was that light - even a bit lighter - & they were screaming along with 21m race foils. So, if you're into it, there is that ... which winging has no hope of emulating.

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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby Flyboy » Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:59 pm

PullStrings wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:41 pm
There are more places to kite in the world with wind around 10 knots and no real wave / swells
Therefore winging cannot surpass kitefoiling ever
It's just trendy now
People get bored quick and want new stuff to do
Human nature
People get bored quick in places like Maui or the Gorge where they have consistently good winds & swells. For the average kiter/windsurfer getting out in average conditions on an inconsistent basis, means progression takes a longer time, they are less likely to get bored & are less driven to look for the latest challenge.

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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby PullStrings » Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:02 pm

Possibly got Bored after trying it

Ikitesurf classifiels has 124 Wingsurf Wings for sale

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Re: Kite foiling set to die almost completely out as wing foiling takes hold

Postby Just Passing Through » Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:32 pm

PullStrings wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:02 pm
Possibly got Bored after trying it

Ikitesurf classifiels has 124 Wingsurf Wings for sale
Doubtful. It's a new model year. Wind sports seem to breed gear hounds. Every ad is "latest and greatest" and that awful word...


"Game Changer"

There are 2,200+ kites listed now on Ikite...


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