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Strapless with a foamie

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andikite
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Re: Strapless with a foamie

Postby andikite » Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:08 pm

trefas wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:01 pm
Seems impossible to find Performer 4-10 in Europe. Has anyone found a similar board that works well for kiting that is available in Europe?
I'm searching too. I think I've found a dealer here in Spain. I'm trying to contact with him asking for info. I tell you if I get some news if you want.

Otherwise, I'm looking for other candidates. Mick fanning ones are too expensive for this concept in my opinion...
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ieism
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Re: Strapless with a foamie

Postby ieism » Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:25 pm

How about a Softdog Alpha Dog? I saw one in my local surfshop this fall and it was very light. It also had normal finboxes. That's in Europe.. It was at Hartbeach in Scheveningen.

ieism
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Re: Strapless with a foamie

Postby ieism » Sat Feb 20, 2021 11:26 pm


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Slappysan
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Re: Strapless with a foamie

Postby Slappysan » Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:33 am

andikite wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:24 pm
How about the low end? How many liters Performer has? How is the board on shopy condition? Weight?
Depends on how big the heel dents are as they get worse over time, eventually you'll start to feel the 2 stringers. I'd say about 32L though. The board excels in sloppy onshore conditions, which is what most kiters get. It's also very easy on my old man knees. It surfs waves shockingly well too. They weight 5 lbs new without fins, more like 6 lbs after a few sessions with wax and fins on.

The biggest "drawback" is that it's a bit slow compared to an epoxy board. I actually like this quality though for two reasons:
1) It keeps you from getting out of control (I don't like to ride too fast)
2) It allows you to land tricks sloppy that you'd have no hope of landing on other boards

I'm 165 lbs and I find the low end very good due to the extra volume. It allows you to ride through any lulls instead of having to water start again and lose a bunch of ground. It's not as good as a nice wide LW board, but it's not bad.

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Re: Strapless with a foamie

Postby jakemoore » Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:22 pm

Performers are in stock. Has anybody tried the 5'6" thruster?

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Re: Strapless with a foamie

Postby Matteo V » Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:07 pm

Slappysan wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:33 am
.......The board excels in sloppy onshore conditions, which is what most kiters get. It's also very easy on my old man knees. It surfs waves shockingly well too. They weight 5 lbs new without fins, more like 6 lbs after a few sessions with wax and fins on.
Weight has an extreme dampening effect on chop.

Volume has a slight magnifying effect on chop.

Thus if you keep the weight of a foamie, but cut down its volume (reduce the distance from your feet to the planning surface), the board will be even more knee friendly.



Slappysan wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:33 am
.....
The biggest "drawback" is that it's a bit slow compared to an epoxy board. I actually like this quality though for two reasons:
1) It keeps you from getting out of control (I don't like to ride too fast).....
A lower volume will give you much more control at all speeds. With higher volume, your foot moves further from the planning surface, which creates a lever arm for the chop to gain an advantage over you. This means that higher volume, you can't handle as much speed on chop. And it is the reason that prone surfboards keep tail volume low - more control over the planning surface.



Slappysan wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:33 am
I'm 165 lbs and I find the low end very good due to the extra volume. It allows you to ride through any lulls instead of having to water start again and lose a bunch of ground. It's not as good as a nice wide LW board, but it's not bad.
Riding through lulls is not about sinking the board like in your video. Once you do that, you are moving at less than 1knot. And think about that for a second - how could you ride "through" anything at less than 1knot??? Add to that the fact that it takes more power to start moving from a stop or near stop, than it does to just continue moving without stopping.

The key to kiting is to never stop because stopping has no advantages. Once you stop, the power to get going again is more than it would have taken to just have kept going. Volume DOES NOT produce a buoyant force until the board is sunk. And sinking the board requires eliminating planning forces by stopping forward movement.

At more than 3knots, volume is performance robbing baggage, and nothing more.

But handicaps such as this can be fun. And thanks for that video. It is illustrative of the concept I have laid out, and I'd never take the time to make a vid like this myself.

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Re: Strapless with a foamie

Postby 1234567Simon » Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:16 pm

@slappysan:

I read somewhere that you could easily change the fins to a normal fcs fin.

Would you think it is possible?

not taking care if it makes sense or not or if it would „grade up the board“ - just easily possible?
(Saw your video, looks super good!!!!)

Thanks a lot,

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Re: Strapless with a foamie

Postby scottnorby » Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:52 am

20 years kiting and 15 strapless in surf
The feeling of a board that dampens vibration is addicting fun
Foamies are also ultra high volume with fat rails
This makes the board ride high in the water and you can stand more straight up and glide thru sections with light wind
You can put more weight on the board and forget about the kite as much
But yeah having real fins is a huge difference

Big drawback to foamies is they do break down quickly when kiting them
and the EVA or EPP foams surface will break down and get scratchy and hard

Thanks for the Spacestick mention JJM
We are mostly focusing on building Wing boards for the Gorge right now
but we could sneak some kitesurf strapless customs into production if someone wants one for this summer

Also about foamies
Its also stellar to ride a high volume board.... and catch tiny waves off a point all by yourself
This was an all soft quad stringer twin fin prototype we designed with Tom Morey
In micro wind waves
A little hypnotic zen


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Slappysan
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Re: Strapless with a foamie

Postby Slappysan » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:30 am

1234567Simon wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:16 pm
I read somewhere that you could easily change the fins to a normal fcs fin.

Would you think it is possible?
Well it is certainly possible, but it would be a one way transition. The higher performance Catch Surf softtops come with FCS boxes that are secured via the standard nylon bolt through.
FCS_softtop.jpg
You would have to hollow out room for the box though, thus the one way conversion. I'm not sure if they are easy to get either, but you could buy a trashed board for cheap and salvage the fins. Both my 54 Special and Stump 5-0 have them.

The fins in the Beater are not the same as the standard nylon fins in all the other boards though. The standard nylon fin you'll find in most softops (even Wavestorm) is actually pretty good. I also love the way the Performer 4-10 carves as a twin, and twins have less drag. Agit global (the company that makes Wavestorm) has a version of the Performer 4-10 under their Stormblade brand, but they have switched it to a thruster setup so that ruins it IMO.
Matteo V wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:07 pm
Riding through lulls is not about sinking the board like in your video. Once you do that, you are moving at less than 1knot. And think about that for a second - how could you ride "through" anything at less than 1knot??? Add to that the fact that it takes more power to start moving from a stop or near stop, than it does to just continue moving without stopping.
Matteo V, you and I will never agree on this topic. I've spent countless hours on a Shinnster and many different volume boards, it makes a difference.

What I'm trying to demo in the video is that when the wind drops to the point you can no longer plane (or have to cut downwind to plane) I can float almost stationary on my board, not losing ground until there is enough wind to continue riding. It's not easy as you'll be knee deep in the water, but the kite gives you a lot to balance with (especially if you aren't holding a gopro in one hand). If you are on a 0 volume board and the wind lulls you only have 2 opions:
1) loop the kite and head downwind
2) sink and wait, then when you do your water start head downwind

I will routinely be the last one on the water, riding my 9m + fat surfboard when all the 12m people have gone in. I can hold ground on my 9m in about 11 knots, it's not fun, but often the wind will come back if you wait, so I can slog instead of swimming in.

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Re: Strapless with a foamie

Postby nothing2seehere » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:18 am

Brunotti made a kite specific version for a while - the S Tech range. Looks like they were discontinued but they were selling for about £250 (special offer) with deck grip and proper fins for a while.

I picked up a £30 Grommit foamy to play around with as it was the right price for a toy but it was too flexible really as it only had a single stringer (the fins really sucked) and I donated it to a friends child the following summer. I can see the appeal at that price point but that particular version didn't offer any lower wind range than a good twin tip. Not disappointed with what I have moved onto but it was an interesting toy.


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