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Big Air advantage to being heavy?

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dracop
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Re: Big Air advantage to being heavy?

Postby dracop » Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:48 pm

Wow, 115 kg jumping 15m on a 10m in 30kts is pretty good. Do you have a water current flowing against the wind to help out?

Ive been at 112-115 kg for the past couple of years and was maxing out around 15m jump height, flying a 12m and 10m Rebel. I can hold the 10m Rebel up to about 40kts.

In Cape Town I was able to hold down a 9m Rebel and 9m XR6 in 50 kts and yes I did jump them and loop them.

Mostly been on ocean environements with water current flowing same direction.

Its hard to develop my looping skills to megaloops as I need ao mich wind to get to 10m and smaller kites, just too rare.

In currently on an aggressive doet, down below 100kg atm. Aiming for even lower - 90 kg. Eyeballing switching the smaller kite in my personal quiver to a 10m Dice.

Overall I think the sweet spot is 7m-9m with current designs. So if the 7-9m range is your sweet spot you will be at the top. Too light of a rider will prob suffer and too heavy will def suffer. One thing though the lighter riders gets alot more practice at big air jumps and tricks. They also float in the wind whereas gravity def loves me lol

Its only when the wind is 40+ and a 9m becomes the correct choice for me that the extra weight helps

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Re: Big Air advantage to being heavy?

Postby nothing2seehere » Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:17 pm

Flyboy wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:24 pm
nothing2seehere wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:13 am
In my imaginary world where I can boost 15m regularly, is there an advantage in being heavier for big air?

Here's my thinking. At 80 kg on my 9m my sweet spot is 25knots and I get lovely soft landings as there is loads of canopy above me. Some time ago I sold my 7m kite as it used to drop me a lot faster and landings were dependent on finding that sweet spot and I just used to skip the twice yearly 30+ days. Since the start of lockdown I've lost quite a bit of weight so now my 9m is too big to be my smallest kite and its got me wondering if dropping to an 8m or 7m would still give me the soft landings or if I need to hit the protein shakes to bulk up again (cheaper than a new kite but on the other hand, who doesn't love a new kite) .

So the question is, does a 65kg person on a 7m kite get the same loft/float from the kite as a 80kg person on a 9m kite?
Wait ... you've lost weight during the lockdown?! :coffee:
Turns out that you lose weight when you aren't eating cake in the office every day and drinking out with your mates several times a week.

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Re: Big Air advantage to being heavy?

Postby Abaltasis » Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:57 pm

dracop wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:48 pm
Wow, 115 kg jumping 15m on a 10m in 30kts is pretty good. Do you have a water current flowing against the wind to help out?

Ive been at 112-115 kg for the past couple of years and was maxing out around 15m jump height, flying a 12m and 10m Rebel. I can hold the 10m Rebel up to about 40kts.

In Cape Town I was able to hold down a 9m Rebel and 9m XR6 in 50 kts and yes I did jump them and loop them.

Mostly been on ocean environements with water current flowing same direction.

Its hard to develop my looping skills to megaloops as I need ao mich wind to get to 10m and smaller kites, just too rare.

In currently on an aggressive doet, down below 100kg atm. Aiming for even lower - 90 kg. Eyeballing switching the smaller kite in my personal quiver to a 10m Dice.

Overall I think the sweet spot is 7m-9m with current designs. So if the 7-9m range is your sweet spot you will be at the top. Too light of a rider will prob suffer and too heavy will def suffer. One thing though the lighter riders gets alot more practice at big air jumps and tricks. They also float in the wind whereas gravity def loves me lol

Its only when the wind is 40+ and a 9m becomes the correct choice for me that the extra weight helps
Yeah the 10m max out at around 40knots at this weight... But either its 33-34 or 40knots i see the same height at the woo. Maybe because i cant pop correctly at 40.
I have a flat spot with medium kickers at the end of it, at my homespo,t so i can go really fast before the kicker. :D

The kiteloop training is the worst at this weight as most days i am on the 12m and less on the 10m.


Also as everyone says i also agree that the optimal size is a 9m. And probably the optimal rider weight somewhere around 70-80kg i think..

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Re: Big Air advantage to being heavy?

Postby Tone » Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:01 pm

I am in the process of losing weight -10kg so far so going well.

Should be able to let you know what a 100kg rider who still tries to ride the same kites as when 20kg heavier. Either I won't be able to hold the power or I will go higher.

I hope it's the latter.

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Re: Big Air advantage to being heavy?

Postby SolarSet » Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:36 pm

I was sure that smaller weight of rider a smaller kite he/she has to use the quicker kite turns hence he/she can go higher? Some people think that they can go highest on 7/8m kite because it can turn so fast comparing to larger sizes?

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Re: Big Air advantage to being heavy?

Postby Windigo1 » Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:53 pm

I lost a lot of weight a few years ago personally I feel like I boost higher now with less weight. I also needs less kite I rig smaller often it took some adjusting I used to go out with big kites in strong wind and it was fine now I have to size down. Smaller kites take off more aggressively but you have to fly them more actively to soften the landing!

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Re: Big Air advantage to being heavy?

Postby nothing2seehere » Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:42 pm

So I have a simple understanding why small kites are more difficult to land softly and its to do with the speed that they fly. In order to soften a landing you need to keep the kite flying in the air above your head - note flying and not stationary. Hence a heli-loop slows the rate of descent as long as its above you (less so if its too far behind). With a small kite it moves so quickly through the air that the amount of time its above you is low so you don't get the same upwards deceleration

My guess as to why small riders are at a disadvantage is simply down to kite design and conditions. In simple terms it takes a certain force to push a kite to the edge of the wind window. Whilst a light person can squat much more than their own bodyweight, doing so in anything other than flat water is difficult. A heavier rider can apply more force through the harness more easily and get the kite to the edge of the window. Therefore they are less likely to be pulled off an edge when sending the kite.

There's a lot of psuedo reckoning going on in my explanations here so I'd be interested if anyone knew if I was right or wrong?

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Re: Big Air advantage to being heavy?

Postby Windigo1 » Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:37 pm

nothing2seehere wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:42 pm
So I have a simple understanding why small kites are more difficult to land softly and its to do with the speed that they fly. In order to soften a landing you need to keep the kite flying in the air above your head - note flying and not stationary. Hence a heli-loop slows the rate of descent as long as its above you (less so if its too far behind). With a small kite it moves so quickly through the air that the amount of time its above you is low so you don't get the same upwards deceleration

My guess as to why small riders are at a disadvantage is simply down to kite design and conditions. In simple terms it takes a certain force to push a kite to the edge of the wind window. Whilst a light person can squat much more than their own bodyweight, doing so in anything other than flat water is difficult. A heavier rider can apply more force through the harness more easily and get the kite to the edge of the window. Therefore they are less likely to be pulled off an edge when sending the kite.

There's a lot of psuedo reckoning going on in my explanations here so I'd be interested if anyone knew if I was right or wrong?
When you have reached your maximum height and you start going back down there are 3 forces acting on your kite and opposing the gravitational force that is pulling you down. The air resistance is the force of dragging the kite through the air same as a parachute so a bigger kite brings you down more softly because there is more surface acting as a parachute. There is the force of the wind creating some lift in the kite this force is again bigger if you are overpowered on a big kite. The third force is the momentum the same force that makes you go up will soften your landing when you redirect the kite downward aggressively it's like a reverse jump. With the big kite you can let the first 2 forces do the work and glide down smoothly but with a small kite you have to keep it moving if you don't want to fall like a rock!

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Re: Big Air advantage to being heavy?

Postby Blackened » Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:03 am

The heavier you are, the worse it is. I notice a huge difference in performance from 98-92kg on my 9m.

Basically, less weight, more leg/core strength. The bigger the kite, the more glide you have, the softer the landing without piloting.

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Re: Big Air advantage to being heavy?

Postby Lolomolo » Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:54 am

Kerplow wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:21 pm
There is another angle to look at this. There is a reason why people do not megaloop kites below 7m - it simply do not catch them. Sure lightweights would probably be ok, but its risky.
I Loop a 7 and 8M rpm, they catch just fine. Key to looping small kites is getting enough height. They require a heliloop to "complete" the catch and its hard to sneak one in unless youre at least 9-10M up.


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