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Self Launch Problem

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bragnouff
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Re: Self Launch Problem

Postby bragnouff » Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:14 am

edt wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:48 pm
You are getting a wing tip wrap. This is entirely kite dependent and you'll have to switch to a different kite or only do tethered launches

I've owned one kite which did this constantly so the only option was a tethered launch

The problem with the kite was excessively long bridle

Now all my kites have short bridles

Anyway that's my guess

I've had one kite (Zeeko Krush) which was really prone to those wing tip wraps during self launch, and I mitigated it through pulling all the bridle (the one that was closer to where I'd be when launching) outside of the leading edge and towards me before self launching, instead of leaving it inside of the arc of the kite. This reduced the slack in that bridle when the kite started to rotate, and being already on the correct side of the kite, it prevented the upwind wingtip (or strut?) to somehow try and get into that bridle. I won't say it has totally eliminated the issue, but it has limited that tip wrap issue to a few percent of times, as opposed to something like 50-75%.
I'm self launching almost all the times, and I've had a few sketchy self-launches with that kite before I really understood what was happening and put my mitigation technique in place. Although it always self sorts itself out, this can happen at the wrong moment if the kite is facing the wrong direction.

Now, I consider that long bridles that can grab on a wing tip or strut ends are a design flaw even if line deflectors and tapered strut ends help quite a bit for that too.

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Re: Self Launch Problem

Postby gibsonandpickett » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:25 am

edt wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:48 pm
You are getting a wing tip wrap. This is entirely kite dependent and you'll have to switch to a different kite or only do tethered launches

I've owned one kite which did this constantly so the only option was a tethered launch

The problem with the kite was excessively long bridle

Now all my kites have short bridles

Anyway that's my guess
Your on the money there. Steering line is caught on the wing tip. If u see this happen walk towards it a little .

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Re: Self Launch Problem

Postby Herman » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:39 am

As bragnouf says careful positioning of the upwind bridle can help mitigate a wrap, also careful positioning of the kite to minimise the drag rotation required can help. Have the downwind tip starting to fill etc. Obviously in strong wind a little sanding of the LE may be required for this.

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Re: Self Launch Problem

Postby andylc » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:42 am

Are you talking about foils now??

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Re: Self Launch Problem

Postby happytrees » Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:01 am

I've had 2 bad self launches both with neo which has short bridles in strong fully powered winds.
The kite launches eg. from left of window and then loops, like on the spot with zero power too the right.
It happens so fast I can't see what's going on :o
I use knotwindy method except use far steering line to rotate kite up.
But now I twist/position the kite a little further around and pull steering line while walking upwind in an attempt to keep all lines clear of each other and kite.

Question to all?? Sorry BritishkiteMark but hoping on topic :D

The plastic slider which is on bridle- can the steering line get hooked on/behind this??

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Re: Self Launch Problem

Postby nothing2seehere » Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:04 am

I don't think he's talking foils. My Airush Union V1s didn't like to sit flat on its leading edge without weight. If you turn the kite by hand - so that the bridles are all free - to allow the downwind tip to start to gather a little wind then some kites will start to bounce a little and drift downwind. If you sand the canopy upwind of the centre strut then you can reduce this tendency but with enough wind the kite will still pop up when you start pulling on the centre lines.

Its a little surface dependant though. I have noticed that wet sand sucks the canopy down onto the sand so you often don't need to do this (and also makes pre-rotating the kite important otherwise you end up needing to walk so far upwind that the canopy fills and takes off very quickly).

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Re: Self Launch Problem

Postby Herman » Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:43 am

Personally I want the upwind tip to roll up as easily as possible so if I weight the LE I do it downwind of centre strut but the difference is not huge imho. As for lines catching I have drag launched a 6m in 30+ and the crossed lines at the extensions was enough friction to start the kite turning back into power zone. Fortunately a quick shake on the lines cleared it, but I was surprised how little it took to at least start things going bad. All my posts on this thread have been with respect to LEI. (The lines in question where only crossed, not even twisted.)

Arguably bridles for foils need even more careful management. For foils in strong winds I sand the bridles to prevent wind blown tangles. These can provide you with a real clusterfk!
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Re: Self Launch Problem

Postby Hugh2 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:00 pm

You have to be careful if you turn the kite so the downwind wing tip is just starting to catch the wind. A gust from 10 degrees to the side could roll the kite prematurely. So I put the end of my board, fins up, on the leading edge just to the far side of the central strut, to help keep the kite from premature rotation. Then as you tension the far steering line and pull that downwind wingtip into the breeze, as the kite begins to roll up the board will easily slide off the leading edge. A little sand on the canopy near the leading edge on that far side does the same thing, but takes longer to slide off.

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Re: Self Launch Problem

Postby Flyboy » Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:57 pm

I don't think the original post is clear enough about what he is doing. "Self launch" in this case being walking upwind so that the kite eventually sits up on its wing tip? This is, in any case the riskiest way of self launching a kite in high winds. I agree with others: the most likely problem is the bridle wrapping around the wing tip. A tethered launch should eliminate this problem.

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Re: Self Launch Problem

Postby papasmerf » Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:06 am

BritishKiteMark wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:27 pm
Hi all

I am having a problem with my self launch when in high winds: At the point at which the kite rotates onto its wingtip, it will often loop around quickly into the power zone and therefore drive a sudden surge in pull and ends up on its leading edge in the downwind position.

I feel like I am following the tutorials completely correctly and I ensure that no lines are snagged when it happens. It doesn't tend to happen in light winds but can be an annoying thing to happen if I am first to the beach. I am an experienced kiter but this one issue is bugging me. I fly cab switchblades and although I suspect it is something minor I am struggling to get the bottom of the cause. The only thing I can think of is that I may be initiating the move too far up or down wind of the edge of the window?!

I would be very grateful for any advice. I would like to point out that I do of course use this technique only when absolutely necessary and take great care to ensure that I am always a safe and responsible rider.

Thank you in advance!
have you just tried doing a anchor/tether type launch? the old switch blades behaved pretty well doing that. unless it is super gusty and shifty, then it can be a bit of a pain.


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