First kite for a very, very beginner

[foam-n-fibre]

Forget trying to assign a number to the wind speed. Different meters in different locations on shore read differently. Lots of people estimate the wind strength differently. Even with a handheld anemometer, you can get different numbers depending how you hold it. Go with the size that others at the beach are using, or go with the advice from locals about size for your location.

Also there are many brands and models out there. I'd be surprised if two duotones fit your needs any better than many other kites. For sure experienced kiters can make it work with a kite a bit smaller, and with almost any model.

Peter

[Herman]

Thank you for all of your advices.
I already have a big board TT, and I had an old best ts 12m that at 10-12 knots didnt stay in the air. But other skilled guys, with the same kite size but not Best ts (i think many had Evo)

Almost any properly trimmed kitesurfing kite of any size should stay in the air in 10-12 knots, assuming lulls are not massive. Problem for a beginner is they want to learn in light winds because it is perceived, and is, in someways safer. However, to learn underpowered you actually have to have more kite skills than just biting the bullet and making your self think clearly with more power, but of course with the risk of being slammed. Unfortunately you can not fully understand this conundrum until you have been through it.

Best did have some delta shapes that worked well when powered but were prone to backstalling if underpowered. As a beginner it is important to understand how backstall works and how to recover from it by sheeting out and if necessary pulling the front lines.
Get somebody to show you if you are not already familiar with this.

Flying an underpowered kite on the beech with plenty of space and no risk of overpowering gusts will teach you a lot, but enlist the support of somebody who is experienced. Just imho!

PS. If I were teaching a 85kg friend on my gear I would use anything from a 4 to 17m but on the water that would restricted to no smaller than a 9m. For there first kite for the water a beginner should go big as things happen slower but then you have to accept the restriction of lighter wind days, however, I think it is also a good idea to pick up what will be their smallest kite in their quiver for land practice if they have a big suitable area for land practice in sensible wind - but local conditions dictate! TUK is even more important than TOW in the very early stages imho.

[fernmanus]

I wonder why new riders observe what riders are using at their local spot and instead of taking advice, they think there is some magical answers on the worldwide forum?

True be told is that every location is a bit different and rider preference varies so much. So for example in 10 to 15 knots, I would fly a 21m Soul or Sonic. While I would have friends on anything from a 12 to 17m LEI and various size boards. Some riders will struggle a lot with smaller kites/boards in that light of wind, but if it picks up, they are not as over powered as I am.

Some riders will never touch a 17m and others will ride a Zephyr to 30 knots. Go figure.

[Havre]

What a strange post. Magical answer?

I have been out with my 17 while others have been riding a 9. How would that beginner standing on the beach be able to make any sense of that?

This board isn't exactly so busy that "we" can't afford to give someone asking for a bit of guidance some help.

And I don't see how one excludes the other. Watch, ask people at your local spot and if you want to post on here. Hopefully that will give whoever it is a good picture.

[Grancio]

As I said before, I ask for advices to my teacher and he said to buy 11-12m, because to him is better to learn how to move the kite to generate power from the beginning. But in 10-12 knots I struggled with backstall with my old best ts 2016 12m while more skilled kiters go smoothly with the same kite size and similar weight. When knots goes to 15-17 I did well, but in my spot, especially in summer, are uncommon conditions.

So, I am convincing myself to get a 13-14-15m, maybe a Duotone Evo or a Cabrinha Contra or a slingshot z.

I read about duotone juice, but on duotone website say that is not for an entry level.

[Herman]

Personally with your weight and conditions I would keep the Best TS and add a 15 or 17m.

Make sure the Bar/pigtails are set up for the proper sheeting range on the TS. Google how to find and set the onset of backstall position if you are not familiar. In under powered conditions you may have to trim in to keep the kite flying well. This is often counter intuitive to beginners because they are told it is depowering the kite. Remember that you will have to be more positive about stopping the kite overflying if it is trimmed in for lower angle of attack.

I have not ridden the TS but I have seen it perform well and so I would expect you to grow into it as you become confident with more power.

[Flyboy]

I'm 80 kg, have never owned a 17m kite & haven't used anything bigger than a 12m kite for the last 12 or 13 years. I have no idea why anyone would want to own or use a 17m kite in this age of foiling (unless you're Toby).

There's a huge difference between 10 knots & 15 knots ... so it really does depend where in that spectrum the wind actually is most of the time. 10 knots you would need a 17m to get going, even on a big board, 12 knots a 14m would probably do it, 15 knots you should be powered up on a 12m. If I were you, I would probably look at something like a 14m or 15m with a good low end & keep the TS for winds that are 15 knots or higher. The reality is there's a diminishing return on the performance of kites as they get bigger.

[Blackened]

As I said before, I ask for advices to my teacher and he said to buy 11-12m, because to him is better to learn how to move the kite to generate power from the beginning. But in 10-12 knots I struggled with backstall with my old best ts 2016 12m while more skilled kiters go smoothly with the same kite size and similar weight. When knots goes to 15-17 I did well, but in my spot, especially in summer, are uncommon conditions.

So, I am convincing myself to get a 13-14-15m, maybe a Duotone Evo or a Cabrinha Contra or a slingshot z.

I read about duotone juice, but on duotone website say that is not for an entry level.

Hey fella,

Sorry for your forum experience. Sometimes the forum gets a bit off topic and involved in their personal opinions of random things. You're also likely to have a contrary opinion to just about anything.

Couple points:
1. The TS was a bit of a backstally kite, especially in light winds. While you can learn on it, I wouldn't recommend it to beginners. The wind-range is fairly narrow, with not the best low end.
2. The Juice isn't really any different than other LW kites. If you're happy to learn on a Contra, then you'll be fine on the Juice.
3. The Slingshot Z is a school specific kite. Don't do it to yourself. You'll thank me later. I don't think it goes as big as you want anyway.
4. Out of the kites you listed, the Evo 14m (biggest it goes) is the perfect beginner through intermediate kite. This is for the 2018+. Don't get a pre-2018 with the 5 strut design.

Personally, I don't like LW specific kites. They generally have a narrower wind range and pull like a tank once they get moving. You need to have good edging discipline/power to stay upwind. While others will, I certainly wouldn't recommend one unless absolutely necessary. Go with the 14m Evo (2018+) and you'll be away laughing. Great lowend, decent high end, low bar pressure, decent turning. (also with a decent sized board)

Enjoy.

[Steve271]

I think you’ve got a lot of great feedback here.
I will add that I’m a lighter rider (150 lbs) and would be pulling out a 15m in those conditions
When I learned I had a 13m Contra, which was helpful because it was so slow and did not overreact to my clumsy steering- but I did quickly grow out of it.
Personally I found little advantage in a 17m since it didn’t get me going much earlier and then quickly overpowered whilst trying to drag me downwind. But I also don’t have the weight to comfortably hold it down- even with a seat harness.
I have a 15m XR5, but if I was buying again I would buy a 3 strut that flys a little earlier, than a 5 strut that handles more wind- if I’m flying a big kite, it’s usually because it’s not windy enough for a smaller one (doh!)