How Short Do You Like Your Steering Lines?

[Lelandjt]

I've been playing with tuning line lengths lately and have settled on 3/4-1" shorter steering lines than "stock". What I mean is when the lines are hooked on my nail-in-a-mango tree and I pull back on the chicken loop and bar the original spec is for the bar to be just barely touching the chicken loop assembly. What I prefer is when the outer lines are a little shorter and the bar stops almost an inch in front. Any shorter and it's too easy to back stall the kite and I have to use some depower more often in gusts. At the stock setting I miss being able to get a little more pull, especially during jumps.
I've also started making the left line a tiny bit shorter so the bar is very slightly cocked. I'm goofy foot and this feels better for making a down stroke on my toeside without being enough to notice when up stroking or riding heelside.
Anyone else also run their lines so the kite can be "over-powered".
I only use Naish 20m BTB bars (easy to reach depower while riding toeside) and Slash or Pivot kites 6,7,8m. Occassionally 10 or 12m with 24m lines.

[Herman]

To make the check easier I set rears about 20mm shorter. However, I do not let this dictate level of sheet or oversheet, this I set on the kite pigtails.

[Peter_Frank]

Okay, first of all, it does not make sense to compare this way.

The "ancient" front and rear lines should be equal length when bar pulled all the way in" does not make sense.

it differs between brands and individual sizes, and is only a rough thumbrule for newbees who does not know better.

Okay, looking away from that, us as individuals use very different default trim settings, and this is of course what the OP asks about, what we prefer.

For most of my kites, I like the front lines about 10 cm longer than the rears, meaning kites will typical stall when pulled just a bit more than halfway in.

This gives a huge working range, and more importantly, no matter if surfboards or hydrofoils in waves, you can ride relaxed with the bar away from you in full control easy to turn and no flutter, and still possible to stall back in the window - which are all essentials in waveriding where you lean forward during the bottom turns, and you can place the kite deeper in the window on demand.

Others goes complete opposite - like to be able to pull the bar all the way in, without stalling the kite.
In particular newbees or freestylers of course.

Nothing is of course more right than the other, simply personal preferences

Peter

[bragnouff]

VERY personal preferences.
I like having just a couple of cms of potential light backstalling when pulling the bar all the way in. I ride with bar pretty much butted against the chicken loop. And therefore unhookable. So I don't like super short QRs which leave lots of room below the bar, as I find that completely useless, and even detrimental to kite performance, at least in the low end of the windrange. Bar all in and hitting the QR prevents to go further into choking territory and risking slowing down the kite at any time when you work it hard. Bar all in on micro QRs means you'd ride with overly bent arms, which of course sucks, unless you have short stubby arms like a T-Rex.
In normally powered conditions, a tiny bit of oversheeting means that there's really good steering response, in case the kite needs to be cranked hard into a super tight turn. I don't see a use case for 20cm of oversheeting potential, unless for landing and securing foils.

And of course I don't like the sweet spot of the bar to be half way up the depower line, as this typically is a recipe for a poo stance and a kite high up in the window, but that's quite the norm... I typically ride with the smallest kite I can get away with, power is available through speed and apparent wind, and aggressive steering. Jumps are all about speed, and good timing, and not so much about pulling the bar in to bag the kite. So the rule of thumb of all lines equal is a good starting point.

[jumptheshark]

Okay, first of all, it does not make sense to compare this way.

The "ancient" front and rear lines should be equal length when bar pulled all the way in" does not make sense.

it differs between brands and individual sizes, and is only a rough thumbrule for newbees who does not know better.

Okay, looking away from that, us as individuals use very different default trim settings, and this is of course what the OP asks about, what we prefer.

For most of my kites, I like the front lines about 10 cm longer than the rears, meaning kites will typical stall when pulled just a bit more than halfway in.

This gives a huge working range, and more importantly, no matter if surfboards or hydrofoils in waves, you can ride relaxed with the bar away from you in full control easy to turn and no flutter, and still possible to stall back in the window - which are all essentials in waveriding where you lean forward during the bottom turns, and you can place the kite deeper in the window on demand.

Others goes complete opposite - like to be able to pull the bar all the way in, without stalling the kite.
In particular newbees or freestylers of course.

Nothing is of course more right than the other, simply personal preferences

Peter

Totally agree,

All my kites are small now but the general rules still apply.

Ability to oversheet varies between kites mostly by size.

Least stall with longest lines on big kites.

Considerable back stall and mid length lines for mid range.

But small kites are so easy to overpower It’s nice to dial back the stall again.

[vakiter]

Never heard of asymmetric rear line trim . I ride peak oversheated from even by 1.5inch about. I like a lot of depower on tap, so I can find correct trim for given kite, and wind.

There is A lot of misinformation/misunderstanding of trim out there , which is weird.

[Herman]

*+1. My setting are similar to jumptheshark depending on conditions. Generally I find backstall more useful in smaller kites because they recover quickly. Bigger kites tend to wallow. Having said that backstall can be useful for waterstarting with big foils on short lines.

With small kites the sheeting range can be so small in steady conditions that it is more a case of just setting this range in a position that is most comfortable on the bar. With small C kites I have even had stoppers under the bar when used with a small chicken loop.

My fleet of kites is extensive but old and I have felt the need to modify nearly all the pigtails to keep them flying correctly with my preference for bar position.

Never felt the need for asymmetric rears but I do have a foil that flys quite differently between port and stbd. The bridle needs sorting but at the moment it keeps me amused!

PS In the past I have had to modify pigtails on a number of new kites to get them to fly with my preferences and in some cases just to get to fly correctly in the first place.

[Herman]

Just had a silly bug session in cold mixing air. Local weather station showed 8 to 28knts. I used a 4m Session, low aspect LEI 3 strut kite, on a trimless long throw bar. I would say I was using at least 60cm of bar throw to get the control I needed which was from heavy backstall to sheeted out to depower in loops or heavy gusts. It was actually fun for me just because it was a challenge to keep the ride going as it was shifty as well as gusty. For a steady 20knts I would probably have guessed the amount of throw needed would be about 20cm for this small kite. Just goes to show how much it is horses for courses as far as personal bar set up goes with different kites and conditions.

PS I could just sheet all in when the wind was at it strongest but estimate heavy backstall would start with the bar 10 -15cm out when the wind was at its lightest.

[jumptheshark]

Just goes to show how much it is horses for courses as far as personal bar set up goes with different kites and conditions.

For sure steady 20 is nothing like 10-25 shifty gusty.

Backstall is only of the differences between bars across a quiver. Bar size, line length, depower throw and whether or not there is a trim cleat can all vary depending on kite size. This year I'm even running a mix of slider and chicken loop set up also determined by kite size.

Least backstall hard trimmed in for the biggest kite, a bit more for the smallest, and the most backstall on bars for mid sized kites.

Biggest kite also gets the longest lines, biggest bar, moderate throw and no trim cleat (I rig down pretty early). Biggest kite covers the smallest wind range. 10-13 knots. This bar runs a slider to keep it all minimal in light air.

Middle size kites have the most backstall hard trimmed, have shorter lines respectively on short bars with moderate to long throw with trim cleats to max their range (12 and 25 knots). These bars have chicken loop set up for playing with unhooking.

Smallest kite is on short bar, shortest lines, no cleat and trimmed for only minimal backstall. Slider set up as their is no unhooking for me in those conditions.

[grigorib]

I like 1-1.5” of gap between the chicken loop and the bar when line ends tied to a mango “tree”. Usually gap is not present in brand new sets but then steering lines shrink and it appears