Pivot deforming in high winds?

[iriejohn]

Its all about kite size, technique &/or also how much depower you have dialed in.

If you’ve sheeted out & depowered, don’t expect your kite to turn nicely. But on medium depower so the back lines have some tension, with really hard edging you should be able to maintain control.

For example, yesterday Bully was on a 5m Reach & v powered, boosting & waveriding in full control, whereas Sam was on an 8m RPX, it looked a bit sketchy in the proper gusts, but he was fine & boosting with full control (see his insta video) - I took my ancient 6m Park & it was good, just not boosting that high

And line length.

[Herman]

The way I look at it is that the only thing keeping the kite in shape is the kite structure and the aerodynamic forces generated by the canopy. If you become at all tentative you lose some of these aerodynamic forces and distortion becomes much more prevalent. Of course the good athletes will hold down more power and be using the kite properly consequently not having as much distortion. In the windsurfing rig, where it is easy to see what is going on, I think the only reason you start pushing with the front hand is because you can’t pull hard enough with the backhand. It is this leading edge distortion/luffing that leads to the aero forces reducing AOA and making it difficult for the OP to stop the kite shooting to the Zenith.

It is also a double edged sword. As the wind increases the lift increases but the centre of lift also migrates aft. This means you have to pull harder as you are combatting a bigger force with less leverage. Eventually you can’t sheet in enough to stop the canopy lifting causing the LE to start luffing. This can be a stable scenario but it it starts oscillating your day could turn bad.

I like the Flexi and OR storm kites as I am too old to hold down a floppy kite, (not saying there is anything wrong with Pivots they look good). My flexi Stormchaser 5.5 has 6 struts and a generous size LE and is probably the best kite I have flown for this sort of thing but only flown the 5 strut OR rise in 6m rather than their storm kite, and that was pretty good. Of course the best advice is just don’t do it!

PS Yep = not the time to underinflate!

[Herman]

It was a tad breezy here too:

[edt]

All I know is that I have no idea what happens not just to a pivot but to any kite in 50 knots. This is a question that I'm not brave enough to go out in conditions to know the answer.

[Hugh2]

All I know is that I have no idea what happens not just to a pivot but to any kite in 50 knots. This is a question that I'm not brave enough to go out in conditions to know the answer.

I've seen gusts to 50 mph on our local lake and it was downright scary. On a 7m Pivot, getting lofted is no fun (I recently got a 6m Pivot for those days, plus foiling). In Cape Town we occasionally get a day with winds consistently approaching 40 knots, and I go to my decade-old Cabrinha Nomad 5.5m with six struts on those days. But, I'm old and less bold these days. I used a 5m Best Waroo a few times when strong NW fronts with gusts around 50 and above came through at Cape Hatteras back in the day, but it is now only for trainer purposes.

[sewerrat]

It was a tad breezy here too:

Kite Journal entry for 5/20: "Rounded the farm animals into the barn, sheltered with family in tornado shelter..."

I would consider anything with sustained wind over 30 knots as too unpleasant to be outdoors! I'm always amazed at the estimated wind ranges people on the forums target kite sizes for. I'm 85kg and use a 12m for 12-20, 9m for 15-25, and 6m for 20-30. I've never been to Ireland or the Netherlands where it appears you get sustained wind that high. But if I did, went wind crazy, donned a 7mm wettie with boots and gloves, and eyegoggles, I think I would be level headed enough to use a 4 or 5m!

Back to the winsurfing sail example, cambered sails were invented in part to stop the draft from moving backwards and causing the dreaded mast-to-head wack when front hand quickly stopped pulling and pushed back. I sailed the Gorge way back when and started wearing a helmet because trying to waterstart, the 40mph gusts would lift the sail, then the draft would move back, the sail would luff, and whack you on the head! So, yeah, if you like boosting in 35+ then either a well designed 3 strut pumped up to high psi and/or a 5 strut seems the call (but again, within reason!)

[PullStrings]

Deforming to be expected in 50 knots = 57.5 mph as the kite becomes a flapping flag

You are better off with a Pivot 5 meter if you think it is that strong

As for comparison using the Duotone Evo 3 struts

Upper wind range suggested for their 7 meter in 37 knots = 42.5 mph

For their 5 meter it is 41 knots = 47 mph

They sell a 4 meter with suggested upper wind range of 43 knots = 49.5 mph

That is very windy !

A lot a people guess-timate the very high winds wrong just like the very low winds in their kites while they ride

Rule of thumb safety in very high wind

Can you self launch your kite

Can you self land without using the QR and walk up your lines to the kite

If so you are doing good and will remain safe to live an other day

[Herman]

If you took the a camber inducers out the wack on the head would not have been as hard, when inducers go, they go with a bang. Getting your feet on the board before lifting the sail to stop the board being flipped by the mastfoot, even with a heavy board, used to be a bit of a gargle. Also at 50 knots boards and other kit can, literally, get blown away. It would be nice to have a crew and be somewhere where you could just eject everything without putting somebody else in danger if you are going to explore the limits with a kite. Apologies for being a bit off topic.

[edt]

Just watched a video of a guy kiting in 40-50 knots. He said he had to pump the kite to a minimum of 12 psi. Otherwise tacos is what's for dinner as the kite will deform.

[Matteo V]

Just watched a video of a guy kiting in 40-50 knots. He said he had to pump the kite to a minimum of 12 psi. Otherwise tacos is what's for dinner as the kite will deform.

I have kites, all the same model, but different years. Some years are prone to deforming when oversheeting in a loop. A few of those years deforming issues only happen when less than 9psi in the 5.5 and 3.5 sizes above 35knots. One year in particular, will still deform above 9psi.

If manufacturer reccomended pressure wont fix it, then it's a design flaw.