Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Pivot deforming in high winds?

Forum for kitesurfers
User avatar
iriejohn
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2616
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:04 pm
Weight: 80kg, 1.78m
Local Beach: West & East Wittering (UK South Coast)
Style: Make it up as I go along
Gear: Bars, Kites
Twintips, Directional
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Noviomagus Reginorum
Has thanked: 549 times
Been thanked: 282 times

Re: Pivot deforming in high winds?

Postby iriejohn » Sat May 22, 2021 10:45 pm

TheRussian wrote:
Sat May 22, 2021 10:34 pm
Its all about kite size, technique &/or also how much depower you have dialed in.

If you’ve sheeted out & depowered, don’t expect your kite to turn nicely. But on medium depower so the back lines have some tension, with really hard edging you should be able to maintain control.

For example, yesterday Bully was on a 5m Reach & v powered, boosting & waveriding in full control, whereas Sam was on an 8m RPX, it looked a bit sketchy in the proper gusts, but he was fine & boosting with full control (see his insta video) - I took my ancient 6m Park & it was good, just not boosting that high
And line length.

Herman
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1591
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:09 pm
Style: My Own.
Gear: SLE, foils and C kites, TTs, Directionals, Landboards, Buggy.
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 154 times
Been thanked: 392 times

Re: Pivot deforming in high winds?

Postby Herman » Sun May 23, 2021 9:37 am

The way I look at it is that the only thing keeping the kite in shape is the kite structure and the aerodynamic forces generated by the canopy. If you become at all tentative you lose some of these aerodynamic forces and distortion becomes much more prevalent. Of course the good athletes will hold down more power and be using the kite properly consequently not having as much distortion. In the windsurfing rig, where it is easy to see what is going on, I think the only reason you start pushing with the front hand is because you can’t pull hard enough with the backhand. It is this leading edge distortion/luffing that leads to the aero forces reducing AOA and making it difficult for the OP to stop the kite shooting to the Zenith.

It is also a double edged sword. As the wind increases the lift increases but the centre of lift also migrates aft. This means you have to pull harder as you are combatting a bigger force with less leverage. Eventually you can’t sheet in enough to stop the canopy lifting causing the LE to start luffing. This can be a stable scenario but it it starts oscillating your day could turn bad.

I like the Flexi and OR storm kites as I am too old to hold down a floppy kite, (not saying there is anything wrong with Pivots they look good). My flexi Stormchaser 5.5 has 6 struts and a generous size LE and is probably the best kite I have flown for this sort of thing but only flown the 5 strut OR rise in 6m rather than their storm kite, and that was pretty good. Of course the best advice is just don’t do it!

PS Yep = not the time to underinflate!
Last edited by Herman on Sun May 23, 2021 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Herman
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1591
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:09 pm
Style: My Own.
Gear: SLE, foils and C kites, TTs, Directionals, Landboards, Buggy.
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 154 times
Been thanked: 392 times

Re: Pivot deforming in high winds?

Postby Herman » Sun May 23, 2021 10:59 am

It was a tad breezy here too:
Attachments
AAFDED87-A7A8-45E8-AF98-FE29A8F5E515.png

User avatar
edt
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 6570
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: Michigan
Gear: ride hard, no regrets
Has thanked: 291 times
Been thanked: 354 times

Re: Pivot deforming in high winds?

Postby edt » Sun May 23, 2021 1:00 pm

All I know is that I have no idea what happens not just to a pivot but to any kite in 50 knots. This is a question that I'm not brave enough to go out in conditions to know the answer.

Hugh2
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1401
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:38 am
Kiting since: 2005
Weight: 190lb/86kg
Local Beach: Clinton Lake in East-Central Illinois
Favorite Beaches: Cape Hatteras and Cape Town
Style: freeride
Gear: Cabrinha Nomad 5.5, Best Cabo 6, Naish Pivot 6, 7, 9, 10 and 11, Cabrinha Vector 12
Long Ocean 136, Eleveight Master C+ 136, Naish Global 6'0", RB Sixty 3 Matador 5' 8", Slingshot Hoverglide H5 foil and Alien Air 4' 6" and Converter boards
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 63 times
Been thanked: 206 times

Re: Pivot deforming in high winds?

Postby Hugh2 » Sun May 23, 2021 5:46 pm

edt wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 1:00 pm
All I know is that I have no idea what happens not just to a pivot but to any kite in 50 knots. This is a question that I'm not brave enough to go out in conditions to know the answer.
I've seen gusts to 50 mph on our local lake and it was downright scary. On a 7m Pivot, getting lofted is no fun (I recently got a 6m Pivot for those days, plus foiling). In Cape Town we occasionally get a day with winds consistently approaching 40 knots, and I go to my decade-old Cabrinha Nomad 5.5m with six struts on those days. But, I'm old and less bold these days. I used a 5m Best Waroo a few times when strong NW fronts with gusts around 50 and above came through at Cape Hatteras back in the day, but it is now only for trainer purposes.

sewerrat
Rare Poster
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:16 am
Local Beach: north of santa cruz
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Pivot deforming in high winds?

Postby sewerrat » Sun May 23, 2021 7:05 pm

Herman wrote:
Sun May 23, 2021 10:59 am
It was a tad breezy here too:
Kite Journal entry for 5/20: "Rounded the farm animals into the barn, sheltered with family in tornado shelter..."

I would consider anything with sustained wind over 30 knots as too unpleasant to be outdoors! I'm always amazed at the estimated wind ranges people on the forums target kite sizes for. I'm 85kg and use a 12m for 12-20, 9m for 15-25, and 6m for 20-30. I've never been to Ireland or the Netherlands where it appears you get sustained wind that high. But if I did, went wind crazy, donned a 7mm wettie with boots and gloves, and eyegoggles, I think I would be level headed enough to use a 4 or 5m!

Back to the winsurfing sail example, cambered sails were invented in part to stop the draft from moving backwards and causing the dreaded mast-to-head wack when front hand quickly stopped pulling and pushed back. I sailed the Gorge way back when and started wearing a helmet because trying to waterstart, the 40mph gusts would lift the sail, then the draft would move back, the sail would luff, and whack you on the head! So, yeah, if you like boosting in 35+ then either a well designed 3 strut pumped up to high psi and/or a 5 strut seems the call (but again, within reason!)

PullStrings
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2035
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:54 pm
Kiting since: 1999
Gear: LEI's & Surfboards
Has thanked: 190 times
Been thanked: 190 times

Re: Pivot deforming in high winds?

Postby PullStrings » Sun May 23, 2021 8:07 pm

Deforming to be expected in 50 knots = 57.5 mph as the kite becomes a flapping flag

You are better off with a Pivot 5 meter if you think it is that strong

As for comparison using the Duotone Evo 3 struts

Upper wind range suggested for their 7 meter in 37 knots = 42.5 mph

For their 5 meter it is 41 knots = 47 mph

They sell a 4 meter with suggested upper wind range of 43 knots = 49.5 mph

That is very windy !

A lot a people guess-timate the very high winds wrong just like the very low winds in their kites while they ride

Rule of thumb safety in very high wind

Can you self launch your kite

Can you self land without using the QR and walk up your lines to the kite

If so you are doing good and will remain safe to live an other day

Herman
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1591
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:09 pm
Style: My Own.
Gear: SLE, foils and C kites, TTs, Directionals, Landboards, Buggy.
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 154 times
Been thanked: 392 times

Re: Pivot deforming in high winds?

Postby Herman » Sun May 23, 2021 11:01 pm

If you took the a camber inducers out the wack on the head would not have been as hard, when inducers go, they go with a bang. Getting your feet on the board before lifting the sail to stop the board being flipped by the mastfoot, even with a heavy board, used to be a bit of a gargle. Also at 50 knots boards and other kit can, literally, get blown away. It would be nice to have a crew and be somewhere where you could just eject everything without putting somebody else in danger if you are going to explore the limits with a kite. Apologies for being a bit off topic.

User avatar
edt
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 6570
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: Michigan
Gear: ride hard, no regrets
Has thanked: 291 times
Been thanked: 354 times

Re: Pivot deforming in high winds?

Postby edt » Mon May 24, 2021 2:18 am

Just watched a video of a guy kiting in 40-50 knots. He said he had to pump the kite to a minimum of 12 psi. Otherwise tacos is what's for dinner as the kite will deform.

Matteo V
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 0

Re: Pivot deforming in high winds?

Postby Matteo V » Mon May 24, 2021 2:40 am

edt wrote:
Mon May 24, 2021 2:18 am
Just watched a video of a guy kiting in 40-50 knots. He said he had to pump the kite to a minimum of 12 psi. Otherwise tacos is what's for dinner as the kite will deform.
I have kites, all the same model, but different years. Some years are prone to deforming when oversheeting in a loop. A few of those years deforming issues only happen when less than 9psi in the 5.5 and 3.5 sizes above 35knots. One year in particular, will still deform above 9psi.

If manufacturer reccomended pressure wont fix it, then it's a design flaw.


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests