Naish pivot vs North reach vs Fone bandit as a first kite

[Leo L]

Hi all,

I am new to that amazing sport and about to pick my first set up.
I am 85 kg and my local beach tend to have 14-21 knots wind.
I want to buy one of those freeride kites and don't know which will be better for me.

MY first kite will be 12m one due to my body weight and my local beach winds.
in the future I will add a smaller one for other beaches.

Regarding the 2020 Bandit - I understood they change it a bit towards big air mega loop kite and I guess the other two will be more forgiving for a new rider.
am I right?

Which of the three is better build one? I want it to be a well build kite.
The reach is a new kite. is it strong enough in terms of construction and materials?

Thank you for any help.
Leo

[luca]

Hey Leo,

from all three Kites F-One is on the last place of build quality. I had each Bandit sind 2012-2019. They are well built with light materials, but you see that after one session.
North and Naish are top.
I think the best starting kite out of them are the North Reach or Naish Pivot. You can choose by your own feeling. You will be very happy with both of them.

KR
Luca

[Robsw6]

I have owned Pivots & borrowed a Reach - although not for me, imo the Reach is a better/more forgiving beginner/intermediate kite, as it feels softer & more user friendly, but ultimately has very nearly the same upper end performance. The Pivot is still a fantastic kite & one of my all time favourites for a kite that does everything well - but they tend to work better at the upper end of their range & a 12m Reach would be perfect for the full windrange & body-weight mentioned - plus its a North & their construction is as good, if not better than anything else (plus the bar is v good).

[dave1986]

If you are a beginner then a Naish Triad would be better suited for you than the Naish Pivot. The Triad is a great kite to learn and progress on. The Pivot isn't a bad kite to learn on... but the Triad will make everything it that little bit easier and hence more enjoyable learning process.

Having said that, any of these kites will he good to learn on.

[Pitu]

If you are a beginner then a Naish Triad would be better suited for you than the Naish Pivot. The Triad is a great kite to learn and progress on. The Pivot isn't a bad kite to learn on... but the Triad will make everything it that little bit easier and hence more enjoyable learning process.

Having said that, any of these kites will he good to learn on.

Personal gripe, and slightly offtopic rant: but man do I hate """beginner""" kites (read: triad, PS, probably more). Especially the triad is just the most useless kite ever invented considering it is exactly as expensive as the Pivot, not safer in anyway and it does everything the Pivot does... except just a little bit worse. Adding to that is the fact it's basically unsellable on the 2nd hand market, because no non-absolute-beginner will ever buy it from you. And what do you get if you lay down €1500 for a brand-spanking-new Triad? Basically a Pivot, but it steers a little bit less quickly and it doesn't pulls as hard, maybe, sometimes?

Really, what beginner won't be able to learn on a Pivot, but manages just fine on a Triad?

[dave1986]

If you are a beginner then a Naish Triad would be better suited for you than the Naish Pivot. The Triad is a great kite to learn and progress on. The Pivot isn't a bad kite to learn on... but the Triad will make everything it that little bit easier and hence more enjoyable learning process.

Having said that, any of these kites will he good to learn on.

Personal gripe, and slightly offtopic rant: but man do I hate """beginner""" kites (read: triad, PS, probably more). Especially the triad is just the most useless kite ever invented considering it is exactly as expensive as the Pivot, not safer in anyway and it does everything the Pivot does... except just a little bit worse. Adding to that is the fact it's basically unsellable on the 2nd hand market, because no non-absolute-beginner will ever buy it from you. And what do you get if you lay down €1500 for a brand-spanking-new Triad? Basically a Pivot, but it steers a little bit less quickly and it doesn't pulls as hard, maybe, sometimes?

Really, what beginner won't be able to learn on a Pivot, but manages just fine on a Triad?

The Pivot and Triad have slightly different power delivery and although they look very similar to the eye, their profiles are different which makes them fly differently. Yes you can easily learn on a Pivot, but the Triad will make things easier.

The Triad has less of a power-spike than the Pivot.
The Triad has more park-and-go type power - allows you to not have to work the kite as much.
The Triad makes jumps and landing jumps easier (although the Pivot will jump higher).

[luca]

Don’t spend money on a general beginner kite. If you are a bit talented, you just need general beginner kites for the first 3-5 days. And then you can sell them.
Important is that the kite is stable, easy relaunch, good quality, good depower, smooth power delivery.
Take the Reach and you will be very happy for sure. The Pivot is very good too, but not that soft like the Reach.
I ride my Reachs 12 and 10 in really really gusty spots. 7-20 knots plus is normal and I use the 12 with 75kilos. Awesome kite! Below that I have the 7 and 9 Orbit but I wouldn’t recommend them to beginners.
And the Reach will go all the way up with you to an intermediate status and more.
For me personal the North Bar is much nicer than the Naish Bar.

[dewwy]

Don’t spend money on a general beginner kite. If you are a bit talented, you just need general beginner kites for the first 3-5 days. And then you can sell them.
...
For me personal the North Bar is much nicer than the Naish Bar.

This. North Navigator Bar is way cleaner and has better QR. Reach/Pivot are both good kites. in the end it doesn't really matter which one you choose.

[andylc]

As many have said, most of the good all round kites mentioned will be fine for learning and you won't ever grow out of them. I disagree with the comment about F-one build quality by the way, all of my F-one kites have been excellent in that regard.
All 3 sound like pretty good choices to me. Not having used the Reach, I don't like the sound of a 'soft' kite, as some have described it, but I'm not in position to say having not flown one.

[POACHER]

As much as I do really like Pivots, and have owned several since 2016...........I do find some fault in them, especially if a beginner. My number one is they DO NOT like being at the zenith. (12 o'clock to the newbs) I've had a few other kites that you can literally take a nap on the beach with the kite hooked up to you and it will stay at 12 rock steady. The Pivot, especially when on the light side of it's wind range doesn't want anything to do with the zenith other than a quick pass through on the way to the edges of the wind window. I have taught a few people, and my wife has expressed interest in learning to kite this winter in TCI, I wouldn't mind having something else to teach her. I'm thinking my Boxer 16 when it's blowing like 10kts. would be great.

The other thing is it's a generally a pretty punchy, fast kite for their respective sizes when flown in their range. When teaching I don't find a fast kite to be newb friendly. I do like the slow, not so panic sensitive steering of like a Flysurfer, Switchblade or higher aspect kite that doesn't flinch much when operated by newby ham hands. (Pivot 14 is pretty good actually, it's kind of slow to react)


Can you learn on a Pivot? Absolutely. Just know a few of it's quirks going in and you'll be fine. I do think it's probably the best "one and done" kite. I haven't flown a Reach or a Supermodel yet.


Pivot newb positives:

-short bridle. It doesn't mess with the wings at all when relaunching. It really doesn't seem to get funky when rolled either. I love this about Pivots
-easy, quick relaunch. Pretty simple to get back into the air.
-very tough, resilient kites. I've done some DUMB shit on these kites (botched tether launch, tomahawked failed kiteloops, and close shaves with a palm tree) the seem to hold up great
-wind range. We've been WELL over the recommended range on these kites many times. They still fly fine really depowered and can make survival sailing doable.

I'd be really curious to hear the flying difference between a Pivot and Triad. I was surprised to hear that they are relatively the same price....That's a no brainer then.