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How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

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PullStrings
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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby PullStrings » Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:00 pm

Surely because he did not Quick Release himself from kite ASAP is the answer.

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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby Matteo V » Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:11 pm

nherbold wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:50 pm
Didn't they mandate use of helmets for any park-riding comps a few years ago (Triple S etc)?
Not sure if that was 'in general' or just for a particular organizer of those events.
Excellent point!

For competitions where the organizing body could be held liable, it is an absolute necessity/responsibility to mandate helmets for that event, pretty much world wide.

Also with any thing such as a slider/park feature where the creating/maintaining organization has assets that could be seized, mandating safety equipment is also a must.

But there's always going to be some idiot in a park or competition hoping for a photo opportunity, that is more concerned about image, than if his death ruins it for everyone.


But when kiteboarding in natural conditions, there is really nobody to use for killing yourself on hard packed sand, rocks, or a beach log.

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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby Matteo V » Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:16 pm

PullStrings wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:00 pm
Surely because he did not Quick Release himself from kite ASAP is the answer.
How do you know he didn't reach for it, but the G-force, or the initial stumble, or a sudden onset medical issue, prevented him from activating it?

To put it plainly, a helmet isn't there as active primary safety. It's there as a passive secondary safety if the primary one fails or cannot be activated.

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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby Flyingseb » Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:24 pm

PullStrings wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:00 pm
Surely because he did not Quick Release himself from kite ASAP is the answer.
Seems to be very narrow minded answer

Accident are by nature non previsible: you can’t predict what will go wrong.
To activate the QR, you need to be in control of the situation.
Do you think you would be able to do this while getting uplifted and disoriented? Or would you wait until you land on water or whatever the « floor »?

By the way, how often do you train to activate your QR? Every session?

Question (seems like it is always ignored): why are most insurances in my country putting Kitesurf on the blacklist, meaning it can be ground to deny fulfillment of the insurance contract?

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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby Matteo V » Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:44 pm

andylc wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:37 am
To take the conversation away from whether or not we should be all doing it, could anyone comment on the specifics of kitesurf helmets and why I shouldn't use my skiing one? It is lightweight, fits me like a glove, seems to have as many holes in it as the water specific helmets and the ear pieces are removable. What am I missing?
Because if you suggest using a helmet not remotely rated for the intended application/sport, the "excuse for not wearing a helmet crowd", would go nuts.

Take for instance if I suggested wearing a hockey helmet (no face guard/visor) for kitesurfing. Someone attempting to discredit me is going to go on about the rated impacts and such, or how the helmet isn't rated for impacts with rocks. Even though the impacts encountered in hockey are obviously similar to what could be expected in kiteboarding, the conversation will still be derailed by those looking to obfuscate the discussion.

So essentially, the best way to ask your question is to create a new topic on that.

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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby PullStrings » Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:47 pm

Yes i activate my QR several times before launching.

Im ready to QR in a split second always.

No lofting.

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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby Matteo V » Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:54 pm

PullStrings wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:47 pm
Yes i activate my QR several times before launching.

Im ready to QR in a split second always.

No lofting.
So do you think that you have zero chance of having an accident?

How about a sudden onset medical condition? Broken line on a kite loop? No gusts or sudden weather changes ever, at your location?

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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby PullStrings » Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:15 pm

Did you at least watch the video on the previous page ?

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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby Toby » Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:30 pm

No one has 100% control.

I have a lot of control, didn't help me to get injured recently. Got lucky though. No obstacles close by....just my board which was suddenly in front of me waiting for my impact.

Gear failure? It all can happen. Had a lot happening to me, and read lot of stuff on this forum...and I am telling you, all those high jumping MEGALOOP kids so far are very lucky. Risk is very extreme. Hopefully luck stays with them.
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Matteo V
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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby Matteo V » Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:19 am

PullStrings wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:15 pm
Did you at least watch the video on the previous page ?
Yes, twice now. Facts are in the beginning half, feelings are in the latter half. It's absolute confirmation of everything I'm saying.

Situational awareness??? That's demonstrable nonsense. Take for instance hockey - I actually cant think of a sport that requires more situational awareness - and they do wear helmets. Now somebody is going to say that 'everybody is wearing one on both teams, so it evens out'. To which I would say that you really dont have any opponents to compete with in kitesurfing, so what possible disadvantage could it impose. Not to mention that it's just a feeling, and you cant measure any lack of situational awareness with a regular helmet user vs a non regular helmet user. Thus this line of reasoning is inconsistent and inarguably linked to those looking for an excuse not to wear one.

Helmet induced invincibility complex??? Total bs too! If you have the willpower to make the choice between using a helmet and not, then you also have the willpower to not let a helmet talk you into doing something stupider than normal. On one hand the temptation to push beyond your skill level with a helmet on is irresistible. On the other, you can easily resist temptation when you dont have a helmet on??? That is not just logically inconsistent, it's insane...... or rather just another excuse to not wear one.

And then the neck thing??? Haven't we beat that one literally to death? I have not heard of any kite surfer dying of whiplash. Sadly though, it seems to be more and more frequent that we hear about kiters dying of squished out brains. Any sore neck that a helmet gives you is worth the reduced chance of death. And if that guy was really serious about not getting a sore neck, he'd shave off that mop of a haircut he has. So once again, the logic in this excuse is not anything that comes close to consistent.

So pulley, did you even watch that vid?


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