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How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

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elguapo
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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby elguapo » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:33 am

just personal experiences..

i use a helmet when wave ridoing in on an unfamiliar or reefy locations... i also use when going for speed on a fast(er) foil.
i havent worn anywhere in hawaii(hazards launching and in water..but familiar).. have not in turks(swallow sandy bottom),, or mexico(deep water) yet
i almost always wear in cabarete (shallow reefs and the *many* clueless/self centered riders), colombia (unfamiliar) and places likes san blas and bahamas where i am usually the only person kiting.

primary reason for not wear is kinda dumb..
i burn easily...and i spend mucho time in sun.
so my preference is to wear a big brimmed or simply baseball hat while on water


key thing...
is a choice.

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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby vannibombonato » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:40 am

Pemba wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:27 am
vannibombonato wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:52 am
Pemba wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:34 am


You're entitled... Sure, by law you probably are and so are they. Freedom of expression and all. I don't think anybody was going to sue you. I find it unconstructive. But being constructive is maybe not your biggest concern.
You can't be constructive with idiots. How can i be constructive with someone debating whether wearing an helmet is safer vs. not wearing it? The only reasonable thing to do is to just not debate with someone like that, just like i don't spend my time into debating with flat-earthers and the likes.

I'm into this post just for a sense of responsibility: maybe someone will read this "debate" and choose to wear an helmet. And maybe that someone will have his life saved.

I have spent years visiting an hospital where people with brain damages are kept, and i can tell you that in his Inferno Dante could not imagine something even close to what i've witnessed many times.
And i'm willing to spend 10 minutes per day into possibly helping someone not to end there.

There is a micro, micro chance for this to happen, i know that, but it's enough for me to post.
I suggest you will have a better chance changing someone's mind by addressing issues raised then by calling them idiots because it's obvious they are wrong.

I don't think anybody would argue about the examples repeatedly given of situations where a helmet would help (headbutting a rock, a board, a tree etc). Why repeat them over and over and call people idiots for not understanding ? Why not address the perceived negatives of helmets given, or the likelihood of accidents happening or being avoided in stead ? For example somebody on here said that helmets should never have a bill with example and explanation. That was useful information to me, it is something I will pay attention to when I buy a helmet. Anyway, I don't want to patronize people, I'm moving on I think.
I'm not trying to convince anyone that thinks that wearing an helmet is not safer than wearing one. That's impossible, because that person is an idiot.

I'm trying to make other readers understand that the risk of not wearing an helmet exists, and it is life-disrupting, and not worth the very single reason for why the overwhelming majority of people are not wearing helmets: which is, the human desire to look as cool as possible.

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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby andylc » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:37 pm

I'm not sure not wearing one is all about image and coolness. I think genuinely most people do not consider head injury as a high risk. 15 years of kitesurfing would tend to agree with this, however I cannot disagree that if wearing a helmet does not have downsides such as neck injury etc then it's difficult to argue against wearing one if it reduces even a very small chance of head injury.

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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby Havre » Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:49 pm

If vanni says so I think you should be sure Andy. Unless you are an idiot :lol:

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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby vannibombonato » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:43 pm

andylc wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:37 pm
I'm not sure not wearing one is all about image and coolness. I think genuinely most people do not consider head injury as a high risk. 15 years of kitesurfing would tend to agree with this, however I cannot disagree that if wearing a helmet does not have downsides such as neck injury etc then it's difficult to argue against wearing one if it reduces even a very small chance of head injury.
What do you "genuinely" think is more likely? That people in this pic are not wearing helmets because of the negligible risk, or because they care more about looking cool?

We all know the answer, but many here are not even man enough to admit it (and there is nothing wrong in desiring to "look cool" obviously, it's human nature). They go as far as questioning whether they'd actually be safer with an helmet in the first place.

Which is actually perfectly logical, as it's the same people that lack the basic self confidence to give a flying f**ck about what others would think if they dare to wear that helmet.

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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby Sarda » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:52 pm

jbrodin wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:28 am
A helmet saved my life. A gust trew me into a tree during self launching my kite. I woke up in the hospital, I still don't remember the incident, but the state of the helmet is proof enough. I definetely never became less cautious because of wearing a helmet. Not that I think this will change any minds. In the end we all make our own choices and the risks associated with kiting is a part of why we even do it at all.

The point is did you self launch upwind of the trees relying on the helmet for protection from those trees? Did the helmet affect your decision to self launch upwind of trees? Were the trees a consideration? Did you use your helmet area instinctively "for protection" to reduce risk of injury to your face/neck for example? (as arms ar usually on the bar, perhaps you can reason the implications of mitigation?)

If you had to kite naked, would your perception of risk increase, decrease or remain the same?

With or without a helmet that risk does not change and the possible outcomes are infinite.

"Shit happens" it's true, to some more than others.

Lastly, has your decision making been affected in any way when self launching upwind of trees since your unplanned event resulting in a trip to hospital or relying on the same outcome?

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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby iriejohn » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:16 pm

Sarda wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:52 pm
jbrodin wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:28 am
A helmet saved my life. A gust trew me into a tree during self launching my kite. I woke up in the hospital, I still don't remember the incident, but the state of the helmet is proof enough. I definetely never became less cautious because of wearing a helmet. Not that I think this will change any minds. In the end we all make our own choices and the risks associated with kiting is a part of why we even do it at all.

The point is did you self launch upwind of the trees relying on the helmet for protection from those trees? Did the helmet affect your decision to self launch upwind of trees? Were the trees a consideration? Did you use your helmet area instinctively "for protection" to reduce risk of injury to your face/neck for example? (as arms ar usually on the bar, perhaps you can reason the implications of mitigation?)
...
Move you finger under what jbrodin said. :thumb:
Last edited by iriejohn on Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby palmbeacher » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:17 pm

Sarda wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:52 pm
jbrodin wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:28 am
A helmet saved my life. A gust trew me into a tree during self launching my kite. I woke up in the hospital, I still don't remember the incident, but the state of the helmet is proof enough. I definetely never became less cautious because of wearing a helmet. Not that I think this will change any minds. In the end we all make our own choices and the risks associated with kiting is a part of why we even do it at all.

The point is did you self launch upwind of the trees relying on the helmet for protection from those trees? Did the helmet affect your decision to self launch upwind of trees? Were the trees a consideration? Did you use your helmet area instinctively "for protection" to reduce risk of injury to your face/neck for example? (as arms ar usually on the bar, perhaps you can reason the implications of mitigation?)

If you had to kite naked, would your perception of risk increase, decrease or remain the same?

With or without a helmet that risk does not change and the possible outcomes are infinite.

"Shit happens" it's true, to some more than others.

Lastly, has your decision making been affected in any way when self launching upwind of trees since your unplanned event resulting in a trip to hospital or relying on the same outcome?
This is such a dumb argument. Clearly, jbrodin did not assess this risk (he will now). A helmet can help lives in situations that aren't calculated. As soon as you start kiting around other people there is a risk factor you don't control. Let's say you are kiteboarding in Cape Town and somebody makes a megaloop 200 meters upwind which you don't see coming (and you do neither). Would you rather wear a helmet when he comes at your head with his board full force?

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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby jumptheshark » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:29 pm

Sarda wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:52 pm

The point is did you self launch upwind of the trees
Um, Pretty much every launch spot we have is upwind of something I don't especially want to slam into. If it requires a perfectly open area with hundreds of meters of safe downwind ground, most of us would never be able to kite.

I take great care in launching and landing my kite but every once in a while there are still hiccups. None that have ended in injury, but some that have damaged gear. Anyway, It's unreasonable to think you can avoid all potential accidents with good judgement alone. They are accidents and helmets are simply a mitigation. Like I said. I wear one as much for sun protection and warmth as I do for impact protection. It has served me well for all three.

Don't wear one if you don't want to. I have absolutely no problem with that. If I forget my helmet, I still go kiting.
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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby PullStrings » Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:29 pm

Danger increases as the wind increases.

Buffer zone shrinks as the wind increases.

You reflex speed to QR must speed up as the wind increases at the very first sign of kite misbehaving.

When you hit something hard on land it is because the kite is pulling you.

Remove yourself fast from leash if still danger.

Pilot errors will happen to all of us.

Maintain your gear and do not rush your launches.


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