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How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

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Matteo V
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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby Matteo V » Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:56 pm

Pemba wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:19 pm
I'm not aware that there is anybody here actively discouraging others (beginners) from wearing a helmet. Certainly I wouldn't. I have kited for something like 18 years but never with a helmet. I've never had an accident. Arguments presented in this topic have not convinced me that I should be wearing a helmet (on a twintip). Nor that I shouldn't. I will certainly try one.
Over my years of instruction in windsurfing and kiteboarding, it is BLATANTLY OBVIOUS that if you give a beginner any excuse not to wear a helmet such as:

1. Thier instructor not wearing one
2. Other kiters not wearing one
3. Videos of pros not wearing one even while pulling off unbelievable tricks and stunts
4. Helmets being associated with the kooks in any way
5. Or any idea, even something that goes against simple physics, that helmets "don't really provide a measurable degree of protection

-and you may as well advocate against helmet use. The desire to emulate, look cool, and eliminate just a little bit of the self conciousness that every beginner feels is just too strong.

But the real issue is that all of those feelings at the beginner level don't decrease with experience. They actually increase with experience. Deep down everyone knows this to be true. This is specifically why helmet usage decreases with experience, and why helmets are mistakenly associated with kooks. It's all due to vanity, self conciousness, and the desperation to look cool, which exists to some degree inside of all of us. Helmet users just have the ability to override that stupidity to a degree, and let thier enjoyment, safety of themselves and others, and good of the community, take precedent over those "feels".

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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby Pemba » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:29 pm

Any idea at all how many (head) accidents we are talking about ? I'm not suggesting there are few, I really have no idea.

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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby Havre » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:30 pm

OK. So what is the end point here?

We should not give people excuses to behave in a way we don't think is "correct"?

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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby Toby » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:56 pm

it's very simple:

one has the choice to use a helmet, or not.
Do what you prefer. Never tell anyone what to do or not.
If you want to limit your risk of dying, use a helmet. If you are ok with the risk not to use a helmet, fine too.

Only thing what matters if someone else can get hurt by doing something or not. Not using a helmet only hurts yourself.
Your life, your decisions.
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Matteo V
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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby Matteo V » Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:57 pm

Havre wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:30 pm
OK. So what is the end point here?

We should not give people excuses to behave in a way we don't think is "correct"?
Ummmmm, I guess that sounds good to me. More lives saved, less stupidity getting kiteboarding banned on our beaches....


Kim, wanna play devil's advocate on this one?

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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby KimAndersen » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:03 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:56 pm
Pemba wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:19 pm
I'm not aware that there is anybody here actively discouraging others (beginners) from wearing a helmet. Certainly I wouldn't. I have kited for something like 18 years but never with a helmet. I've never had an accident. Arguments presented in this topic have not convinced me that I should be wearing a helmet (on a twintip). Nor that I shouldn't. I will certainly try one.
Over my years of instruction in windsurfing and kiteboarding, it is BLATANTLY OBVIOUS that if you give a beginner any excuse not to wear a helmet such as:

1. Thier instructor not wearing one
2. Other kiters not wearing one
3. Videos of pros not wearing one even while pulling off unbelievable tricks and stunts
4. Helmets being associated with the kooks in any way
5. Or any idea, even something that goes against simple physics, that helmets "don't really provide a measurable degree of protection

-and you may as well advocate against helmet use. The desire to emulate, look cool, and eliminate just a little bit of the self conciousness that every beginner feels is just too strong.

But the real issue is that all of those feelings at the beginner level don't decrease with experience. They actually increase with experience. Deep down everyone knows this to be true. This is specifically why helmet usage decreases with experience, and why helmets are mistakenly associated with kooks. It's all due to vanity, self conciousness, and the desperation to look cool, which exists to some degree inside of all of us. Helmet users just have the ability to override that stupidity to a degree, and let thier enjoyment, safety of themselves and others, and good of the community, take precedent over those "feels".
Seriously things must be very different around the world.

Here most kitesurfers are middle aged men. And lets face it we look ridiculous with or without a helmet. We are mostly semi fat men running around in tight neopren suits, not a pretty picture. So I think most of us have said goodbye to any vanity left.

Helmets here says absolutely nothing about our level of riding. You will see every level of kiter both with and without a helmet.

Some like me choose to wear them all the time, some never use one, and some use them for specific purposes.

If I was to follow you line of thought, a really good kiter who chooses not to wear a helmet, when on a tt, but chooses to put one on when fx. foiling will look and feel like a kook, as soon as he is on the foil??? makes absolutely no sense, and doesn't measure up to reality here.

Matteo V
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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby Matteo V » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:05 pm

Toby wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:56 pm
Only thing what matters if someone else can get hurt by doing something or not. Not using a helmet only hurts yourself.
Your life, your decisions.
A mother and father were watching a newb getting lifted out of the water and getting ever closer to a rock jetty at my spring location. Fortunately, there was no fatality. But if things would have gone differently, it would have devastated me. I cant even imagine how the kiters parents would have felt.

And while it's the least of my concern in that situation, I'm sure that with the attitude of the local authorities, we would not be allowed to kite there anymore after an accident that resulted in a death.

Your actions affect all of us. Some more severely than others.

Matteo V
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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby Matteo V » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:09 pm

KimAndersen wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:03 pm
If I was to follow you line of thought, a really good kiter who chooses not to wear a helmet, when on a tt, but chooses to put one on when fx. foiling will look and feel like a kook, as soon as he is on the foil??? makes absolutely no sense, and doesn't measure up to reality here.
Bystanders aren't watching someone mow the lawn on a foil way out in deep water. :lol:

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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby PullStrings » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:13 pm

What is the ideal wind speed to wear a helmet on a twin tip or strap surfboard if there are no rocks no trees no houses no crowds and your board stays under your feet ??

8kn
12kn
15kn
20kn
25kn
30kk
35kn
40kn
45kn
50kn

Matteo V
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Re: How to turn a topic about a fatality into an absurd helmet discussion

Postby Matteo V » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:20 pm

PullStrings wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:13 pm
What is the ideal wind speed to wear a helmet on a twin tip or strap surfboard if there are no rocks no trees no houses no crowds and your board stays under your feet ??

8kn
12kn
15kn
20kn
25kn
30kk
35kn
40kn
45kn
50kn
All of these

What is the ideal wind speed to use a quick release for?
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