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15m light wind kites Juice/Turbine/Zypher

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danlar
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Re: 15m light wind kites Juice/Turbine/Zypher

Postby danlar » Thu May 27, 2021 1:29 pm

I own a Juice 15m 2020, has a great wind range, I can kite TT at 9 knots, I am 63 kg. My Juice is lighter than my Rebel 11m 2020.

If you are rich, think about the new Juice Dlab with Aluula 🧐

Kristan
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Re: 15m light wind kites Juice/Turbine/Zypher

Postby Kristan » Thu May 27, 2021 1:37 pm

Buying LEI kite for light wind is heresy. Get a foil kite.

grigorib
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Re: 15m light wind kites Juice/Turbine/Zypher

Postby grigorib » Thu May 27, 2021 2:20 pm

Kristan wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 1:37 pm
Buying LEI kite for light wind is heresy. Get a foil kite.
It funny how those who called out heresy tended to appear on the very wrong side of history :)

Large LEIs work well for many people and work better for many people, unless they race.
Not everyone has a suitable spot to ride LEI, time to deal with bridle tuning.. Foil kites win races but there’s a cost to those victories

jedi1
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Re: 15m light wind kites Juice/Turbine/Zypher

Postby jedi1 » Thu May 27, 2021 2:28 pm

Havre wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 12:19 pm
I think "stating the opposite" in terms of being able to go upwind would be related to power (not sure). If you are slightly overpowered on a 17m (or similar) it is tougher to go upwind. Not anything different than going upwind with my 9m Enduro (with the right power) is easier than going upwind with my 12m Enduro (with the right power). When I'm really powered with my 17m I can just forget body dragging upwind if I lose my board.
A smaller kite will most often be easier to go upwind with. There's a rule of thumb that the smaller the diameter of the leading edge, the easier it is to go upwind (obviously that's not an entirely universal truth). As for body dragging, that is true. You can't edge when body dragging, so can't force the kite to move forward in the wind window, so when overpowered you will be pulled downwind. That is not what I meant in the original post though. My example would be more of "it is easier for me to go upwind with the 18m2 in 16 knots, than it is in 10 knots". I find in the lower range of my kite, I can usually pretty much stay in the line to where I started, but it's harder to get ground upwind.
Havre wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 12:19 pm
Disagree on big kites for beginners. Obviously comes down to conditions a bit, but the kite I used the most as a beginner was my Zephyr. In 15-16 knots it is an excellent kite to learn on in my opinion (not sure if that is what the OP is after though). Only got to be a bit careful not getting overpowered.
This is exactly what I meant by it. A big kite can get powerful really fast. If by any means a beginner lives in an area where wind is usually blowing for a 15/17m2 (this is the most used kite in the area), then go for it. Here there are often times when it's blowing 12 and then in a moment it blows 18 knots for a couple of minutes etc. This might get scary for a beginner, who can't edge properly. A big kite is an expensive one, so it's better to get to know what are the potential pros and cons.

It is also true that the person, who asked the question is most likely not a beginner (by the date he joined this board). I think it's good to give a bit more rounded opinion though, because there's lots of people who read those topics later on. Good to have different points of views on this too.
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Havre
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Re: 15m light wind kites Juice/Turbine/Zypher

Postby Havre » Thu May 27, 2021 2:33 pm

Thanks for the clarifications. Then we are in full agreement I think.

bkkite
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Re: 15m light wind kites Juice/Turbine/Zypher

Postby bkkite » Thu May 27, 2021 2:47 pm

I live in a light wind spot where you need a big kite for a large part of the year. I started out with slingshots and a 17m Turbine, and I learned that the wind range was quite challenging. Like you could ride at 14mph and then be over powered at 17mph.

I rode a few juices around then and found that they turned faster and had better wind range than the Turbine. Then I rode a Core XR 19m and fell in love :) really big wind range turned faster than the 17m’s so I bought that and moved to all cores. I eventually sold the 19m and got a 15m XR and have been really impressed with its wind range too. More recently I started foiling, so I’m on smaller kites these days.

I’m 215lbs / 95kgs for context

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Re: 15m light wind kites Juice/Turbine/Zypher

Postby Kristan » Thu May 27, 2021 3:02 pm

grigorib wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 2:20 pm
Large LEIs work well for many people and work better for many people, unless they race.
Not everyone has a suitable spot to ride LEI, time to deal with bridle tuning.. Foil kites win races but there’s a cost to those victories
That's quite an outdated view on foil kites.
15 and 17 LEI kites are heavy, beyond certain wind threshold they just fall out of the sky. Foil kites are paragliders cousins, and paragliders tend to fly from barely any wind, and so are foil kites. I remember struggling to keep my 17m Fat Lady in the sky, while people on foil kites have been riding around me with no issue. Now I have a foil kite as well and I'm relieved, light wind riding is pure joy for me.
Not to mention that foil kites has way wider range on top end. For example I know a foil kite that has 15m size only and designed to have range from 6 to 30 knots, and people that ride it say that it is actually possible.

grigorib
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Re: 15m light wind kites Juice/Turbine/Zypher

Postby grigorib » Thu May 27, 2021 3:34 pm

Not sure what has changed for people who don’t have a beach and walk out with kite to drift launch and self land in water. Not sure what changed in availability of local foil kite repair shops. Nothing changed in need of equalizing bridles on foil kites and “fun” of drying them. Nothing changes in price gap of foil kites and LEIs. What changed is there are less freeride foil kite models and more race foil kites.

Foil kites are cool and awesome and I’ve had them for years. I also rode my 15m Turbine on 37m lines with a door when guys with 19m Flysurfers didn’t do that well. I also flew my 19m Flysurfer when guys on 17m Turbines ended downwind.
Also I could ride 17m Core XR LW on 39m when I couldn’t ride my 19m Flysurfer, tried side by side.
Being able to keep a kite in the air doesn’t mean it’s rideable.

All summed up - there are kites for different conditions and for different people and from my perspective - I have foil kites, I like them, I don’t ride them.

Outdated view....

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Re: 15m light wind kites Juice/Turbine/Zypher

Postby HALF » Thu May 27, 2021 7:46 pm

grigorib wrote:
Thu May 27, 2021 3:34 pm
Nothing changes in price gap of foil kites and LEIs.
Here I tend to disagree.

SOUL2 15m € 2099.00
XR7 15m € 2099.00
OR Flite Aluula 14.5m € 2549.00
Juice 15m € 2,059.00
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grigorib
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Re: 15m light wind kites Juice/Turbine/Zypher

Postby grigorib » Thu May 27, 2021 9:00 pm

15m Turbine bought new for $900, sold for $850. My S3 19m Deluxe was $1900, sold for $1100

Launching Flysurfer in OBX sucked, drying it after rolling it on a wet bar sucked, I wouldn’t even dare to driftlaunch it back home - it is abuse for that wing. I loved it, all my foils were beautiful, I’d love to ride a race kite newer than a 15m Sonic or 15m R1 which I rode the last. I wouldn’t buy one.

A good reason to not buy XR LW or Aluula are those prices listed above. But I’m not arguing your point, I just do different and advise others to do the same.

Yet I see your point - LEIs look like they got more expensive, especially with that “Aluula effect”. As massively as everyone is going to foiling and winging, the demand for those monsters is on decline - big kites become a shadow of windsurf gear fate.
Last edited by grigorib on Thu May 27, 2021 11:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.


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