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Universal Flag (Safety) Line Replacement Ideas

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SWO_kite
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Universal Flag (Safety) Line Replacement Ideas

Postby SWO_kite » Fri May 28, 2021 7:20 pm

For reference, I'm currently using a LF mission control V2.

I'm looking for suggestions to replace the safety line. As most of you know LF Kite doesn't exist any more and I can't simply purchase a replacement line. I'm certain the I could use almost any line as long as it's the correct length.

To be clear, I'm not looking for a replacement LF part online, I'm trying to solve the issue with creative thinking. I'm sure there's some gear builders/engineer minded individuals on here who can certainly aim me in the right direction. Technically, there should be an effective solution that any older bar could potentially use.

My initial idea is to use a similarly sized(length) of replacement flag line from another brand, but it's tough to know how long they actually are without owning those bars. My second idea would be to acquire a set of 1m line extensions and try that. Thoughts?

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Re: Universal Flag(Safety) Line Replacement Ideas

Postby Matteo V » Fri May 28, 2021 7:57 pm

Make your own. I do this even, and most especially, when you can get the replacement part. I can always build it simpler, stronger, and better than the contracted factory in China. My only cost is time, and materials that are most assuredly better than original equipment.

Learn to splice!
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Re: Universal Flag(Safety) Line Replacement Ideas

Postby GregK » Fri May 28, 2021 8:17 pm

Oprion # 1 - DIY fabrication of a replacement - usually 2.5mm ( 7/64 inch ) diameter single-braid Dyneema line ( i.e. Samson Ropes Amsteel Blue ) will work if you skip inserting bungie line in the middle of the safety line which most bars have to take up the slack when trimmed in. Typically safety lines have spliced & stitched loops on either end. Lot's of how-to-splice DIY vids out on Youtube.

Option # 2 - mail it to Comox Kite Repair ( http://www.comoxkiterepair.ca/Bridles_and_Lines.php ) and have Joost make and install it. If you can do the removal and re-installation, then just send the original safety line.
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SWO_kite
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Re: Universal Flag(Safety) Line Replacement Ideas

Postby SWO_kite » Sun May 30, 2021 4:55 pm

Okay, I'll start my research into line splicing. Seems like a valuable long term skill if I'm going to keep kiting.

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Re: Universal Flag(Safety) Line Replacement Ideas

Postby Foil » Sun May 30, 2021 8:34 pm

if its a safety line with added internal bungie to take up the slack then doing it yourself is a big ask, I make these lines and more for many guys here in the uk, and the cost to ask someone like me to make you a number of safety lines is minimal, and cheaper than the original parts normally, (when I make them they are anyways) In your case I am too far away to help.
gearing up to do it yourself can cost you more than you think after all the parts/tools are delivered, and learning the skills may take more time and patience than you plan for. unless of course you need another hobby to master, if so get practicing!

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Re: Universal Flag(Safety) Line Replacement Ideas

Postby watercamper » Sun May 30, 2021 10:54 pm

Foil wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 8:34 pm
if its a safety line with added internal bungie to take up the slack then doing it yourself is a big ask, I make these lines and more for many guys here in the uk, and the cost to ask someone like me to make you a number of safety lines is minimal, and cheaper than the original parts normally, (when I make them they are anyways) In your case I am too far away to help.
gearing up to do it yourself can cost you more than you think after all the parts/tools are delivered, and learning the skills may take more time and patience than you plan for. unless of course you need another hobby to master, if so get practicing!
Is there a video somewhere showing how to do it? I already do the splicing just have never made a safety. I assume you just insert the bungie into an opened up piece of dyneema or spectra then sew the ends? Or is that too simplistic?

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Re: Universal Flag(Safety) Line Replacement Ideas

Postby OzBungy » Mon May 31, 2021 1:48 am

Foil wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 8:34 pm
if its a safety line with added internal bungie to take up the slack then doing it yourself is a big ask, ...
I just eliminated the bungie. It causes more problems than it solves and doesn't really do anything useful.

The weight of the leash on the end is more than enough to pull through any slack. Removing the bungy makes the line more streamlined and less likely to get jammed.

The only inconvenience is when winding the lines I pull the stopper up to rest against the trim bracket so I don't have a bit of slack line hanging out from the chicken loop.

I use 2mm Dyneema with Brummel splices. They're not my favourite splices but they ideal for this particular job.

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Re: Universal Flag(Safety) Line Replacement Ideas

Postby evan » Mon May 31, 2021 6:15 am

What problems does a bungee cause then, a slack flagout line is more prone to wind itself around everything and getting stuck somewhere.

Inserting the bungee isn't that hard, getting the right length is together with with stitching as a normal machine will have big problems with punching through the rubber and added friction. Also make sure that when fully extended the load is on the outside Dyneema and not the bungee inside.

Other things to consider is your flagout hole through the chickenloop or double bore depower cord tubing. Fone, naish, Cabrinha for example have very little room. So the flagout line can't be too thick or else it won't fit through the system but also not too thin as the loop-loop connection to the power line can be pulled through the power bracket / line organizer if made too small.
The tolerances on those bars are pretty tight in the 0.1-0.5mm range...

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Re: Universal Flag(Safety) Line Replacement Ideas

Postby Foil » Mon May 31, 2021 6:58 am

yes you can do without a bungie cord inside the flag out line on some bars, but not on say the Ozone standard bar which must have the bungie inside to prevent nasty tangles, but then do it wrong and it will jam inside the quick release,
apart from safety considerations its a compromise in many cases that looks sloppy and can tangle in depower situations, making one is a faff for most, and without the right machine then sewing in the bungie may be impossible without resorting to hand sewing, choosing the right strength thread is important as are the needles you use, its all possible but many do underestimate just how fiddley this is, and considering the important safety factors involved in getting it right then is it worth it for the sake of 20 -30 dollars or pounds for a pro to do it for you.
yes splicing is easy to learn, but I can not see many people who would see it as worthwhile to learn all the skills to get it right, and stock the variety of lines needed along with the tools needed for all the jobs that may crop up.

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Re: Universal Flag(Safety) Line Replacement Ideas

Postby OzBungy » Mon May 31, 2021 8:16 am

I've got 600 hours over two bars with no bungie flagging lines. Zero tangles. Zero wear and tear. The most used bar has half a meter of trimmer travel and I can use it all when foiling with a big kite. Lots of trim line. No tangles.

Running bungie up the line is not difficult. Securing it is a bit more of a problem. You either run it out, loop it round then back in and down or up. Or simply sew it flat. Either way you end up with a bunched bit that can cause jamming and breaking problems.

Bungie breaks. This and the other threads wouldn't exist if it didn't. We wouldn't have all this experience at fixing flagging line bungies if it didn't break. Admittedly the bungie on my newest bar has not broken after 104 hours. Perhaps bungie is better than it used to be.

The only way I can imagine a non-bungie depower line being a problem is if you unhook a lot.


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