Helmets for kitesurfing and the bucketing and drag myth

[Leon van Bergen]

OP: ''I do not want to start yet another debate'' ?!?!?!?!?!?!

[downunder]

Apparently a Water Ski Racing and winging is comparable with having a kite hooked to harness.

The comparison with skilled and trained athletes in Water Ski Racing and casual weekend kitesurfers makes no sense what so ever.

Glad you cross posted this. Nicely done.

Carry on...

"I would also be quite cautious about applying the findings about speed waterskiing in the world of everyday kitesurfing"

I know English isn't your first language, but that's pretty clear that he's not saying they're comparable.

Sorry Kami,

I was not replying to bragnouff, but to OP.

And you are quoting bragnouff statement.

The OP showing skilled and trained athletes has really nothing to do with majority of kiters.

The OP could compare oranges with oranges, but decided not to. Just pointing out the facts.

~~~~

Am I reading this correct:

"No bucketing with the right helmet. Most of the "considered cool" helmets used by kitesurfers while protecting the head , can bucket somewhat"

"Can bucket somehow" - but calling it a myth? Contradicting yourself big time. So is it a myth then or not? My english is poor, so need to ask

The pic is good tho. Nice carving man. Is it relevant for the discussion? Absolutely not.

But carry on...

[sflinux]

I have experienced the bucket effect with a skateboard helmet (flyaway).
Stretch Riedel broke his neck wearing a skateboard helmet while windsurfing (attributes it on the helmet).
It is not a myth. I suspect the type of foam used plays a part. Foam that soaks up water will increase in weight. The amount of catch in the front of helmet can scoop water, the lower profile the better.
That being said, I doubt you will experience the bucket effect with a modern helmet designed for water use.
The traditional gath surf helmet has the least bucket effect in my experience, compared to the Gath Convertable (with half visor) and Protec Ace wake.
If you want a helmet for collisions, the Protec feels safer. But the Gath does the job for protecting against puncture strikes.
I use a lacrosse helmet (with face cage) for foiling.

[Onda]

The helmet doesn´t have to make forceful impact harmless (like a motorcycle helmet).
My critical situation is this: Falling while riding a wave with my strapless surfboard. Wave throws my board against my head. I faint. Then drown within a minute.
If the helmet prevents me from loosing consciousness, then that´s all I want.

I use the classic Gath helmet. Makes me looking like an idiot. But works perfectly. Super light. Super low-profile.

[Matteo V]

I use a lacrosse helmet (with face cage) for foiling.

Similar to a hockey helmet? I cant think of a sport that is closer to the repeated impacts that we face in kitesurfing, than hockey.

[FredBGG]

I would also be quite cautious about applying the findings about speed waterskiing in the world of everyday kitesurfing. Over 40kts water becomes a hard surface that will lead to bouncing on surface, instead of penetrating the surface. As such, a good helmet designed for protection against impact on hard surfaces makes sense in that application.

I have done some a lot of waterskiing and some racing.
The only difference is that with high speed water skiing the first couple of hits and bounces are less penetrating due to the hardening effect of speed, but in nearly every water skiing fall after a couple of bounces you slow down to kitesurfing speeds and there are plenty of times you will hit the water multiple times just like in kitesurfing. One huge advantage of the helmet is that the head is less likely to penetrate the water at the higher speeds and the other is that there is way less drag.

Helmets are more important in kitesurfing due to the nature of the sport where the rider controls the "power/engine" and launches form solid ground.
The other huge difference is that in watersking the rider is instantly detached from the traction. Once shit happens you always come to a stop. with kiting a dazed or unconscious rider can and most likely will get dragged or lofted after initial impact.

[FredBGG]

The helmet doesn´t have to make forceful impact harmless (like a motorcycle helmet).
My critical situation is this: Falling while riding a wave with my strapless surfboard. Wave throws my board against my head. I faint. Then drown within a minute.
If the helmet prevents me from loosing consciousness, then that´s all I want.

I use the classic Gath helmet. Makes me looking like an idiot. But works perfectly. Super light. Super low-profile.

You make a very important point. Kite control requires constant input from the rider. getting a nice firm bonk on the back of the head from your board is more than enough to daze someone or knock them out and then it can be game over in no time.

Not all helmets are the same. Some offer more forceful impact protection than others. Dual density foam helmets like the Pro-Tec full cut are made for kayaking and offer significant forceful impact protection.

[jakemoore]

Very little is known about surf, kitesurfing and CTE. What is known is that surfers and water-skiers have a high rate of concussion and that is concerning. Every day we learn more about repetitive head trauma and its not good.

Heres a water skiier who believes a friend has early CTE due to waterski wipeouts:

https://waterskierslife.com/watersports ... g-jumping/

And some other infos:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 020-0321-6

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5030788/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 8X19306117

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10 ... 0220931736

For myself I have settled on a traditional Gath helmet. Its a little goofy looking especially with the go-pro mount on top but I'm old enough to care more about aging my brain. For me is the best option to move easily through the water and give some reduction in impact. There is zero bucket effect and I have rejected a few other helmets including the Pro-Tec for bucketing. Thats not a dig on Pro-Tec but more a statement of personal fitting. The Gath has only a very thin padding so its probably the least protection for crashing on land.

[RickI]

I will admit, "bucketing" as it was originally coined should be rare in kiting WITH well fitted and secured helmets. As I recall a coastguardsman fell out of a RIBB traveling at around 45 kts. with a heavy, bulky and loosely secured motorcycle-like helmet on. Going from 45 kts. to 0 kts with a large heavy helmet with a loose strap very suddenly resulted in cervical injury and a case of "bucketing." The force vectors in a kiting water impact vs. falling out of a speeding boat seem likely to be different. Plus, most kiters wouldn't wear a helmet which is so heavy, bulky and hopefully poorly secured too. I think the term has been expanded to include lessor degrees of cervical irritation caused from impacts increased by excess drag from poorly secured, fitted and/or designed helmets for kiting.

I used the Ace Wake for some years. Still at 510 g, it was a bit heavier than I liked. So, I switched to a Gath Gedi with better head coverage than the Gath Hat at around 360 g or so for many years. More recently I have been using a NP Freeride helmet which is also on the lighter side. When it comes to cervical irritation, grams count.

[FredBGG]

Lets also look at the unfounded claim that a helmet going to cause whiplash.

An xl human head weighs in at 7,000g
A Pro-tec xl helmet weighs 430g

That is a percentage increase in weight of only 6%.
That is a very small increase in total weight of the head.

If you consider the reduced drag thanks to the gloss surface of the helmet the 6% increase in total head weight nothing compared to the gain in impact reduction and drag.