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30 year old woman missing in Argentina

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Matteo V
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Re: 30 year old woman missing in Argentina

Postby Matteo V » Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:31 pm

downunder wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:25 pm
How naive is to think that gadgets can help everyone. Like, if there is ONE epirb on the boat, would it be ok to save one life but not all 3? U guys realise that PTSP takes life(s) after the events? And maybe it is better to die than live with a ptsp and struggle till the end? What about the family who need to struggle with a ptsp person?

This are all very unplesant questions no one has answer.

People just dont die when kiting. People die in extreme situations regardles of what the activity is. Risk of getting in extreme situation in kiting is minimal.
I can answer!

3 people on a boat, and 1 locator beacon, means that all 3 people in the boat will likely be rescued.

PTSD related deaths are not prevented by use of a locator beacon. They are prevented by counseling/psychological intervention. Just like a helmet protects your head, but not your toes or wrists.

First step is to stay alive from the most immediate danger, then the next, then the next, and so on. Try not to get yourself killed by an immediate danger because you were worried about dying of old age in the distant future.

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Bille
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Re: 30 year old woman missing in Argentina

Postby Bille » Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:11 pm

downunder wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:25 pm
...
People just dont die when kiting. People die in extreme situations regardles of what the activity is. Risk of getting in extreme situation in kiting is minimal.
Tell that to the 30 year old woman , who went missing

Bille
Last edited by Bille on Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

knotwindy
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Re: 30 year old woman missing in Argentina

Postby knotwindy » Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:35 pm

Yup,
‘solve the first proble, then the next problem, then the next problem. If you solve enough problems you get to go home’
from the movie The Martian

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Re: 30 year old woman missing in Argentina

Postby Dave_5280 » Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:09 am

How a PLB saved my life when I was knocked overboard (Australia) https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/sailin ... oard-78393

Personal locator beacon saves life of kayaker off Safety Bay (Australia) https://www.917thewave.com.au/news/loc ... afety-bay/

Personal Locator Beacon Activated on Lough Neagh (Ireland) https://afloat.ie/sail/northern-irelan ... ough-neagh

Coast Guard hoists two Sarasota area fishermen to safety 40 miles offshore (Florida, U.S.) https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/ne ... 526115002/

Five pulled from sea after Cork rescue personnel mobilise (Ireland) https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irelan ... -1.4529548

NOAA Satellites Helped Save 304 Lives in 2020 - Since its start in 1982, COSPAS-SARSAT has been credited with supporting more than 48,000 rescues worldwide, including nearly 9,400 in the United States and its surrounding waters. https://www.hstoday.us/subject-matter- ... s-in-2020/
Last edited by Dave_5280 on Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:32 am, edited 4 times in total.

Sarda
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Re: 30 year old woman missing in Argentina

Postby Sarda » Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:14 am

Bille wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:07 pm
ieism wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:57 am
A PLB is nice, I own one but it's not 100% solution. I never really use mine. If I'm in the mountains where I have cellphone reach (most of Switzerland) I rather bring my phone and a radio to be honest. When the shit hits the fan, I'd rather talk directly to the rescue service than press a button and hope someone is awake at the other end.
I once took a bad fall Mountainbiking and got knocked out, the Spot didn't help me there either. By the time I woke up I still went for my phone and called a friend and totally forgot I had the device.

I think a phone in a waterproof bag might solve a lot of problems for regular kiters offshore. Remember that calling 911 (or whatever it is in your country) your call takes priority and uses satellites unavailable to your cellphone providers, so even if you're out of regular cellphone reach you can often still reach 911. At least in Europe this is the case.

Also, wear a float jacket (I left mine at the top of my car last week and drove off)
The SPOT will leave a cookie , every :15min from a satellite, anyone
with your link, will know where your at ; even if you are knocked out.
A Cell phone has that capability also ; is there a dedicated waterproof
box , available for a cellphone ?

I wasn't too impressed with the SPOT, for marine use, because it
isn't really that waterproof , (years ago) ; but for my needs on a
Rigid-wing HG it works Great for when a driver is chasing me while
i'm flying ! I don't need to be in cell-phone service aria ; only the driver.
When the driver is out of cell service aria ; he has my trail the moment he
finds a tower. If i crash and die with SPOT; they know where to find the body. :(

Out of curiosity : If your out of cell service ; does calling 911 go to satellite
in the USA ? ------ Great feature, if it does ! :thumb:

Bille
The most recent tragedy (Inreach, rated over SPOT)

https://www.paraglidingforum.com/viewto ... sc&start=0

What went wrong?

Are you still arguing with yourself?

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Re: 30 year old woman missing in Argentina

Postby Sarda » Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:04 am

jakemoore wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:53 pm
Sarda wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:14 am
Are you similarly "lost at sea" ?
Bille wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:27 pm
imaginary colleagues
Anonymous at best. Are they 40k acrobats at Circque de Soleil or 40k fry cooks for McD? Maybe they are 40k bird watchers who hate kites? 40k imaginary friends is a lot keep track of. Mysterious that they must have thoughts on this missing kiteboarder but Sarda won't share what their thoughts might be?

McD's , wouldn't surprise me if any job dealing with the general public was considered high risk in the States. Probably issued stab/bullet proof vests/screens ?

Culture of change is a long way off in that region.

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Re: 30 year old woman missing in Argentina

Postby Bille » Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:11 am

Sarda wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:14 am
...

The most recent tragedy (Inreach, rated over SPOT)

https://www.paraglidingforum.com/viewto ... sc&start=0


Carry on with the high drama.

Where in your imagination have I ever said don't use a PLB, PPE or remotely similar? Total fabrication/fiction?

How is fantasy land?

Are you still arguing with yourself?
That PG pilot, was unconscious at a high altitude ; he was
unable to toss his reserve, or activate the PLB ,come get me
function.

The PLB did give an approximate location from the last ping ; 16km
further down wind.

Without a PLB ; there would be NO Way the wing / or pilot, would
ever have bin found.


From : https://xcmag.com/news/kiwi-johnston-gl ... downtrack/

xcmag wrote: The wing, an Ozone Zeno, was found tangled around bushes about 16km downtrack of Kiwi’s last known point in an area known as Nine Mile Canyon, south of Eureka, Nevada. ...
Kiwi body found ; from :
https://xcmag.com/news/kiwi-johnston-mo ... -released/
xcmag wrote: The conclusion reached by the team that visited the site, which included the local sheriff and experienced paraglider pilots, was that Kiwi would have died instantly. The reserve was not deployed and the glider was not attached to the harness. His Garmin InReach satellite tracker’s screen was smashed. The condition of his other flight instruments has not been made public, but they are being investigated to see if any data can be recovered from them.

Kiwi was found about 2km from where his wing was found. He was underneath a tree, and although the area had been searched at least twice from the air he was invisible from above.
...
So Sarda ; got a question for ya :
Other than being a confrontational sorta A$$ ,
(just look at most the posts ya ever written on this forum) ; are
you World Class at Anything , other than being a prick ?

I was # 4 in the world at ACRO on a HG ; so yea, i do think a lot
about Exit-Plans, for when things go Bad.

Anything else ? if not, then :bye: .

BTW -- good on ya for editing out what You said : "Where in your imagination have I ever
said don't use a PLB, PPE or remotely similar? Total fabrication/fiction? " ; i
woulda bin All over your $hit, for that one !! :lol:

I got your quote , before you did the edit job ; so I will let it slide.

Bille
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Sarda
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Re: 30 year old woman missing in Argentina

Postby Sarda » Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:19 am

Bille wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:11 am
Sarda wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:14 am
...

The most recent tragedy (Inreach, rated over SPOT)

https://www.paraglidingforum.com/viewto ... sc&start=0


Carry on with the high drama.

Where in your imagination have I ever said don't use a PLB, PPE or remotely similar? Total fabrication/fiction?

How is fantasy land?

Are you still arguing with yourself?
That PG pilot, was unconscious at a high altitude ; he was
unable to toss his reserve, or activate the PLB ,come get me
function.

The PLB did give an approximate location from the last ping ; 16km
further down wind.

Without a PLB ; there would be NO Way the wing / or pilot, would
ever have bin found.


From : https://xcmag.com/news/kiwi-johnston-gl ... downtrack/

xcmag wrote: The wing, an Ozone Zeno, was found tangled around bushes about 16km downtrack of Kiwi’s last known point in an area known as Nine Mile Canyon, south of Eureka, Nevada. ...
Kiwi body found ; from :
https://xcmag.com/news/kiwi-johnston-mo ... -released/
xcmag wrote: The conclusion reached by the team that visited the site, which included the local sheriff and experienced paraglider pilots, was that Kiwi would have died instantly. The reserve was not deployed and the glider was not attached to the harness. His Garmin InReach satellite tracker’s screen was smashed. The condition of his other flight instruments has not been made public, but they are being investigated to see if any data can be recovered from them.

Kiwi was found about 2km from where his wing was found. He was underneath a tree, and although the area had been searched at least twice from the air he was invisible from above.
...
So Sarda ; got a question for ya :
Other than being a confrontational sorta A$$ ,
(just look at most the posts ya ever written on this forum) ; are
you World Class at Anything , other than being a prick ?

I was # 4 in the world at ACRO on a HG ; so yea, i do think a lot
about Exit-Plans, for when things go Bad.

Anything else ? if not, then :bye: .

BTW -- good on ya for editing out what You said : "Where in your imagination have I ever
said don't use a PLB, PPE or remotely similar? Total fabrication/fiction? " ; i
woulda bin All over your $hit, for that one !! :lol:

I got your quote , before you did the edit job ; so I will let it slide.

Bille
You missed the point?




"Where in your imagination have I ever said don't use a PLB, PPE or remotely similar? Total fabrication/fiction?"

I can stand by that.

Start looking.?

Vivid imagination?

Detached from reality?

"Confrontational, a$$hole, prick etc."
Still arguing with yourself?
You need professional help!


Was this all about your prowess?
You have issues?

Good luck slider,
Carry on with the high drama?
Last edited by Sarda on Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:43 am, edited 3 times in total.

Matteo V
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Re: 30 year old woman missing in Argentina

Postby Matteo V » Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:36 am

Sarda wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:19 am
"Where in your imagination have I ever said don't use a PLB, PPE or remotely similar? Total fabrication/fiction?"

I can stand by that.




Sarda wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:13 am
Bille wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:26 am
Sarda wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:04 am
[...

How will that affect decision making?

Just think of all those marginal day opportunities now made possible with the "security" of knowing there is a host of emergency services who have "got you covered"

What might some of the knock on effects be?
Who will benefit, who will not?

How many kiter rescues will it take to alter their mission statement?
Think of it , this way "Sarda" :
the devise is nothing more than a , (Back-Up) for when things
go really Bad ; decision making for safety, should remain the
same , and as you already know , (nature doesn't always comply). :o
It's just another Exit-Plan ; relying on your intuition , is still
Paramount !!!^10

Bille
You can think of it however you want. If you view it as a "back up" then your judgement/decision making is already affected?

Point made.?

Back to square 1?

Why is PPE considered the least effective method of risk reduction?

What other methods are considered better?

There is no debate here. You either know and understand or you do not. This is the real basics!
Right there underlined in bold! That's where you said it.

Your statement puts PPE down as "the least effecitve". That's ironic in a thread where PPE (in the form of a locator beacon) would have saved this person's life.

Don't try to hide your thoughts behind a question mark. You have been very clear on your position.

Sarda
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Re: 30 year old woman missing in Argentina

Postby Sarda » Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:50 am

Matteo V wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:36 am
Sarda wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:19 am
"Where in your imagination have I ever said don't use a PLB, PPE or remotely similar? Total fabrication/fiction?"

I can stand by that.




Sarda wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:13 am
Bille wrote:
Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:26 am


Think of it , this way "Sarda" :
the devise is nothing more than a , (Back-Up) for when things
go really Bad ; decision making for safety, should remain the
same , and as you already know , (nature doesn't always comply). :o
It's just another Exit-Plan ; relying on your intuition , is still
Paramount !!!^10

Bille
You can think of it however you want. If you view it as a "back up" then your judgement/decision making is already affected?

Point made.?

Back to square 1?

Why is PPE considered the least effective method of risk reduction?

What other methods are considered better?

There is no debate here. You either know and understand or you do not. This is the real basics!
Right there underlined in bold! That's where you said it.

Your statement puts PPE down as "the least effecitve". That's ironic in a thread where PPE (in the form of a locator beacon) would have saved this person's life.

Don't try to hide your thoughts behind a question mark. You have been very clear on your position.
We will start again...

Are you aware of "Heirarchy of risk/control"?

Obviously not!

So, why is PPE considered the least effective?

There is a simple answer, drawn from the knowledge gained from the study of millions of reported incidents. But you know better?

Do you have and know how to use Google?

This is a standard question with 1 simple answer (not mine)

Are you jumping to conclusions?

Current status is "lost at sea". Do you understand the word irony? To claim a beacon would have "saved this person's life" is ignoring the event?

You need help!

Similar status to you?

Care to tell me again what I said or my position?
In a dark room looking for a black cat and telling all and sundry you have found it?
Bit of underlining maybe?


This is flogging a dead horse isn't it?

Good luck with the incident rate. You will need "luck" whatever that is.
Remember, "there is no such thing as an accident"

Is it true you live in a van? What make and model?
Last edited by Sarda on Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:34 am, edited 4 times in total.


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