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north neo 2018, back stall trend

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grandeand
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north neo 2018, back stall trend

Postby grandeand » Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:03 am

hi guys, I have two North neo 7-12 from 2018.
both kites have a tendency to back stalls and I have to pull 8-10cm of depower to eliminate.
obviously the wing becomes slower in movement and less powerful.
I checked the bar, the cables are even.
I have tried the same sails with other bars and they have the same trend.

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Re: north neo 2018, back stall trend

Postby malotricks » Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:41 am

Compare your kite bridles with another neo kite from 2016 to now.
Otherwise buy some pigtails in order to adjust your back lines or release some centimeters for your back lines as you have some knots to adjust them in the Duotone bar.

rafd
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Re: north neo 2018, back stall trend

Postby rafd » Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:34 pm

I have the same problem with two identical 5m 2018 Neos.. it tends to be worse at the lower end of the wind range. The kite goes straight from being under sheeted to stalling with no 'sweet spot'. No amount of adjustment seemed to help. I posted a thread in here a while back but did not find a solution.

grandeand
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Re: north neo 2018, back stall trend

Postby grandeand » Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:13 pm

yes absolutely yes .... in the low end of the wind it tends even more to back stal, but this is almost all pumps. but with a normal sale you have to drive with the depower blocked 6-8 cm otherwise the kite tends to fly in the center of the window with a hard and slow bar

Herman
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Re: north neo 2018, back stall trend

Postby Herman » Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:51 pm

Maybe you just need to modify your mindset and also become a bit more sensitive to rear line tension. Firstly, think of it as trim not depower. It is common to have a little backstall tuned into a wave kite for its midrange. This means at the top end you will have a hard time trying to backstall the kite but at low wind it is likely you will need to trim in a little to lessen the backstall, particularly in an awkward sea state. The perception of slow flying may well be down to lack of practice with a backstally setting. Get an experienced rider to check it out. With this sort of kite I use different knots on the rear pigs depending on how much backstall I want for the session’s conditions. Try extending the rear pigs, particularly for low end. With a wave kite you want to be able to stop it in the window but that setting does make the kite harder to control in the lulls because it becomes more vulnerable to an unwanted backstall.
Last edited by Herman on Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

grandeand
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Re: north neo 2018, back stall trend

Postby grandeand » Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:27 pm

my idea was to write to North and see if they can measure me for the kite castle. so as to check if there have been any changes ...

marioparacuru
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Re: north neo 2018, back stall trend

Postby marioparacuru » Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:37 am

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a factory problem on your kite. I've seen lot of this from big brands in the last years, including the ozone v4 5m being totally unbalanced, backstalling etc (yes, I will die saying that about ozone). It's just hard to realize how bad it is based on your words. I certainly would like to try those and have my conclusion. Afterwall, here we can talk about all the bad things the brands are doing... And they still do lots of mistakes!

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Re: north neo 2018, back stall trend

Postby rafd » Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:27 pm

several experienced kiters have found the same on my 5m Neos. I've ridden a 4m 2019 and a 6m 2020 and neither of them experience the problem at all so it seems unlikely it is 'by design'.

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Re: north neo 2018, back stall trend

Postby Herman » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:07 pm

Must be very annoying for a kite to go directly from slack rears to backstall.

Simplistically, the rigging of the bridle bridle/canopy must result in the tow point holding the canopy at the max AoA before stall, whereby, the application of any rear line tension will rock it into a stall! That is a bit like having the bridle attachment points too far aft or the centre of lift too far forward.

I have had some small kites become almost unusable underpowered but work fine when well powered. Obviously these small kite are ok for powered TT but useless for hydrofoils.

All that said, I still think the OP has got to try longer rear pigs before reaching any conclusions.

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Re: north neo 2018, back stall trend

Postby purdyd » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:55 pm

I had 2018 Neos and thought they were trimmed pretty close to back stall right out of the bag. So maximum power.

That is different than the 2018 evo which was trimmed about 5cm short of max power.

All kites will feel like you get more power and better steering if they are trimmed with longer front lines but of course the cost is increased tendency to stall.

And the less wind you have the greater the tendency to stall.

Depending on your skill you can rig so you can stall your kites but be aware of that in how you sheet at the bar.

There are times when I am foiling in light winds that I actually depower the kite because I will keep accidentally stalling the kite.

So you may be just flying in too light of wind for the kite. You might need a larger kite size.

That being said I did come across a very experienced kiter the other day that had 7m kite from another manufacturer that had no sweet spot it was either powered or not powered.


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