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Kite Designer Pat Goodman leaves North

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Matty V
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Re: Kite Designer Pat Goodman leaves North

Postby Matty V » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:54 am

Ice101 wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:52 pm
Love the fact they pay someone that specialises in new materials yet the orbit 2022 about to be released stil has basic d2 material every one else accept fone who always seem to be the last to move on, moved on from ages ago?
If you think the kite brands are building /developing new material on the tiny tiny scale the kite industry uses cloth you are very much mistaken

They choose from what their chosen supplier has developed and then market it to you. That’s it.

Having worked for a cloth manufacturer the boldness in kites is at off cut level, you want a sample roll to build a couple of test kites? That 500 linear meters please when you really want 50

Same issue when you want a new LE/strut material

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Re: Kite Designer Pat Goodman leaves North

Postby dracop » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:29 am

While mostly true, both. Cuben Fiber and Aluula offer major benefits over Dacron.

Granted Best went BK and Aluula is still up in the air. Its not 100% stagnation though.

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Re: Kite Designer Pat Goodman leaves North

Postby Blackened » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:32 am

Ice101 and Playero:

He's being replaced by 4 people. He designed/tested/built four kites in all the sizes mostly by himself. Then helped with foils and boards. Then designed their wings. All on top of updating the kites every year. The North release says there were a lot of long hours, so I suspect he's likely just burnt out doing.. well everything. From what I've read, he's a bit of a workaholic and takes on a lot/all responsibility, so this is likely the case. Also, with Cabrinha back under original ownership, it's probably a no-brainer for him to go back home. I haven't seen/heard any evidence of horrendous management or working conditions at North just yet, so I'll go with the simplest explanation rather than a nefarious narrative.

As for poor customer service at Mystic, it started long before North owned them. From reading these forums, slow/no response seems to be industry standard anyway.
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Re: Kite Designer Pat Goodman leaves North

Postby Havre » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:58 am

Why would it explain anything? He has been working for them until recently right?

Neither do I understand the obsession with "new stuff". If you look at the Orbit how much has really happened with the closest competition? Edge? Incremental changes. XR7? Some new material, but so far nothing to suggest it is more than an incremental change in terms of performance vs. the XR6. Rebel? Will be released as "SLS", but based on other kites from Duotone that typically just means they will go from being heavier than others to more or less ending up on the same weight.

That is not an argument for "stagnation". And it might very well be that the XR7 is a better kite than the Orbit 2022, but you cannot tell just because there is some new material in the XR7 in my opinion.

As for North this could go either way for me. I would imagine that the core principles in the Orbit is Pat's, but that doesn't mean someone else might not be able to tweak it better than he would - fresh eyes etc. Or it might be that the new people won't understand the fundamental properties in the kite well enough to make it better. This is one of the reasons why I'm rarely "brand loyal". Orbit 2021 might be better than the XR6, but maybe the XR7 is better than the Orbit 2022 (or vice versa) etc.
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Re: Kite Designer Pat Goodman leaves North

Postby Baptiste_FR » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:34 pm

One of the next question will be about the riders. Will some of them follow Pat to Cabrihna ? Because Cabrihna needs riders. The brand has not participatied in KOTA or GKA for the last 3 years. Not even a single rider in the amateur or Pro fleet in the BAKL.

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Re: Kite Designer Pat Goodman leaves North

Postby Toby » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:36 pm

Baptiste_FR wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:34 pm
One of the next question will be about the riders. Will some of them follow Pat to Cabrihna ? Because Cabrihna needs riders. The brand has not participatied in KOTA or GKA for the last 3 years. Not even a single rider in the amateur or Pro fleet in the BAKL.
Did their sales drop because of this?
That’s always the big question…how much are pro riders adding to sales?

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Re: Kite Designer Pat Goodman leaves North

Postby Baptiste_FR » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:42 pm

Toby wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:36 pm
Did their sales drop because of this?
That’s always the big question…how much are pro riders adding to sales?
That's a very good question. I don't know about the Cabrinha sales evolution. But I can say that I see a lot more Orbit and XR kite on the beach. It's been a while that I haven't seen a new Cabrinha kite in my area. I'd say that Slingshot is almost in the same position (except for their foiling kites).

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Re: Kite Designer Pat Goodman leaves North

Postby pmaggie » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:01 pm

@Baptiste: I'm not sure about what I'm going to tell but sometimes I have the impression that on a certain spot in a certain period a brand "rules" not because it's better than others but due to the fact that if I see with my eyes or, better, if I have the chance to test a Brand X kite, it's far more likely that I will buy that kite in comparison to others I've never seen not tested. So it happens that Mario buys an X kite, Angelo is a friend of Mario and borrows the X kite from Mario. They both like the X kite, so they tell everyone on the spot that the X kite is so good. People see Mario and Angelo planing full speed and think "omg, this is a superb kite, I want one" and so on.
Another explanation can be the work of a local dealer, same story: you can test a kite, you like it, you buy it and after you your kite buddies.
Last edited by pmaggie on Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kite Designer Pat Goodman leaves North

Postby ARK » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:13 pm

Baptiste_FR wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:34 pm
One of the next question will be about the riders. Will some of them follow Pat to Cabrihna ? Because Cabrihna needs riders. The brand has not participatied in KOTA or GKA for the last 3 years. Not even a single rider in the amateur or Pro fleet in the BAKL.
Cabrinha has some of the best ....Adueri Corniel and Therese Taabbel and in big air Camdyn Kellett is a name for the future and competed in BAKL.

I
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Re: Kite Designer Pat Goodman leaves North

Postby Toby » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:55 pm

Here is the official press release about the new design/R&D team: viewtopic.php?t=2411135


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