Would it be possible to make a kite that jumps high easily (like the Rebel) while still being faster without necessarily being a good looping kite? Being fast and looping might be connected?Blackened wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:08 amThey'll be different. Pat Goodman was a one man show doing everything, whereas now there is a team with more time to tweak and probably more time available for testing/rider feedback.
Unless they completely change the materials, there is no need for a drastic redesign of a winning kite in the current competition format. However, if big air continues to evolve into less technical loops with more airstyle type tricks, you'll definitely see a redesign for more hangtime and less loopability.
I'd consider a Rebel but those rubber bunnies that the steering lines connect to just put me right off...Havre wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:17 amWould it be possible to make a kite that jumps high easily (like the Rebel) while still being faster without necessarily being a good looping kite? Being fast and looping might be connected?Blackened wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:08 amThey'll be different. Pat Goodman was a one man show doing everything, whereas now there is a team with more time to tweak and probably more time available for testing/rider feedback.
Unless they completely change the materials, there is no need for a drastic redesign of a winning kite in the current competition format. However, if big air continues to evolve into less technical loops with more airstyle type tricks, you'll definitely see a redesign for more hangtime and less loopability.
From my experience, most people jumping are not doing hardcore looping, but they might find something like the Rebel too slow (at least in the bigger sizes). I guess I'm in that category.
In some ways the Orbit seems to be designed for extremely high end riders. Maybe you have alluded to that as well on here? Apologies if I remember incorrectly, but some did. So fools like me might end up buying a kite that pro riders can go high on, but the rest of us would be better off with a different kite?
I'm not a kite designer, but I think you always need to make compromises on one attribute versus another. Undoubtedly some attributes go hand in hand - so if you modify the leading edge diameter, it'll make the kite faster and more reactive, but less stable, so you can modify the bridle design to compensate (I made this up, I have no idea what I'm talking about). https://www.kitemana.com/info/blog/kite ... asics-1219
I agree. I'm there as well. Personally, I think a megaloop is defined as >10m and sub 15 degrees off horizontal. Anything else is just a powered kiteloop. I've done maybe 5 of those, and more accidentally than purposely. Basically, pulled really early, didn't crank the bar trying to force it low, and accidentally went higher than I thought I was going to .
Orbit is just not for beginners. Intermediate riders are fine on it. It just stalls really easily. The vast majority of people on the Orbit here fit into that intermediate category.Havre wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:17 amIn some ways the Orbit seems to be designed for extremely high end riders. Maybe you have alluded to that as well on here? Apologies if I remember incorrectly, but some did. So fools like me might end up buying a kite that pro riders can go high on, but the rest of us would be better off with a different kite?
Out of interest why?
They tried resurrecting the Crossbow with the AV8, so there is that he can tweak. There is also the FX to play with if they bring back the Chaos for the wake group. Or new kite, Cab seems to have enough designers for a broad lineup.Tony in FL wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:55 pmWith Pat leaving North and the popularity of the Orbit it will be interesting to see what he does next. Cabrinha already has two "do it all" kites - the Moto and Switchblade. The Moto is a freeride kite with emphasis on foiling and surf while the Switchblade is a freeride kite with emphasis on big air. The Switchblade has such a big following that Cabrinha may be hesitant to make big changes to it (which may even have been part of the reason that they came up with the Moto as a different model kite).
It seems like Pat would want to bring over some of his Orbit magic to Cabrinha. But how to do so is an interesting question. Does he start messing with the flight characteristics of the Switchblade, and risk upsetting the masses of Switchblade riders? Or does he start reworking the Moto (seems unlikely since its strengths have been more about foiling and surf)? Or does he come up with yet another kite model (this seems unlikely as the Switchblade is already marketed as a big air kite)?
Perhaps he will go the route of subtle changes to the Switchblade for improvement and bigger air. I think the Orbit already has plenty of Switchblade DNA in it as when I demoed one I felt it had a Swtichblade feel to it.
sarc wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:48 amFor example if you don't need pulleys WTF are you putting pulleys on your kites (looking at you Duotone). Bridles and bar lines that are not made of toilet paper (looking at you Duotone).
If they lose focus and start playing specmanship in the brochures... hello Naish????
What is projective area of SB and Orbit respectively? If it's the same, then their arc shape is the same, and it is essentially the same kite.Tony in FL wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:55 pm... I think the Orbit already has plenty of Switchblade DNA in it as when I demoed one I felt it had a Swtichblade feel to it.
I agree with the DNA comment. It's almost like he redesigned the Switchblade for Nick to win KOTA again. If I was a betting human, I would say he's going to change the Switchblade into a redesigned Orbit from his learnings developing it. I don't think the Orbit shape/canopy design has changed hardly at all since its debut at KOTA 2019. The major thing they've done is revamped the bridle quite a lot. There was a video of Pat talking about bridle design somewhere and it being a dark art - he basically said the original Orbit had (I think) four pulleys, then he spent a year modifying the bridle to make it pulleyless for the official release.Tony in FL wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:55 pmWith Pat leaving North and the popularity of the Orbit it will be interesting to see what he does next. Cabrinha already has two "do it all" kites - the Moto and Switchblade. The Moto is a freeride kite with emphasis on foiling and surf while the Switchblade is a freeride kite with emphasis on big air. The Switchblade has such a big following that Cabrinha may be hesitant to make big changes to it (which may even have been part of the reason that they came up with the Moto as a different model kite).
It seems like Pat would want to bring over some of his Orbit magic to Cabrinha. But how to do so is an interesting question. Does he start messing with the flight characteristics of the Switchblade, and risk upsetting the masses of Switchblade riders? Or does he start reworking the Moto (seems unlikely since its strengths have been more about foiling and surf)? Or does he come up with yet another kite model (this seems unlikely as the Switchblade is already marketed as a big air kite)?
Perhaps he will go the route of subtle changes to the Switchblade for improvement and bigger air. I think the Orbit already has plenty of Switchblade DNA in it as when I demoed one I felt it had a Swtichblade feel to it.
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