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Why you should be ready to release? That's why...

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SolarSet
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Re: Why you should be ready to release? That's why...

Postby SolarSet » Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:01 am

RedSky wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:44 am
Bad launcher imo. A good launcher isn't just there to let go, they're responsible for walking the kite into position, feeling the forces on the kite as they do so, which is
I disagree, a kiter responsibility is to make sure he is standing in right position not luncher,
look at wind speed and his kite size they are clearly mismatched...
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kitelife
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Re: Why you should be ready to release? That's why...

Postby kitelife » Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:08 am

RedSky wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:44 am
Bad launcher imo. A good launcher isn't just there to let go, they're responsible for walking the kite into position, feeling the forces on the kite as they do so, which is why only an experienced kiter should be launching, not the girlfriend. At the beginning of the video, the kiter is seen trying to walk into position when it should be the launcher doing the leg work, but with the kite held in place by the launcher, he can't feel the forces acting on it and I suspect it was not launched at the edge but somewhat in the power.
The kite launcher should be making the final decision as to launch or not, regardless of a thumbs up. The thumbs-up should only indicate that the kiter is ready.

I've seen a launcher deny a kiter his thumbs-up signal, it takes courage to over-ride that decision but you could save them from a nasty accident.
Are you serious? The only way the launcher could screw up a launch is by flipping the kite upside down wrapping bridals and throwing it. 99% of the time it’s the kiter. You either know how to fly the kite or you don’t.
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LePhasme
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Re: Why you should be ready to release? That's why...

Postby LePhasme » Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:24 am

RedSky wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:44 am
Bad launcher imo. A good launcher isn't just there to let go, they're responsible for walking the kite into position, feeling the forces on the kite as they do so, which is why only an experienced kiter should be launching, not the girlfriend. At the beginning of the video, the kiter is seen trying to walk into position when it should be the launcher doing the leg work, but with the kite held in place by the launcher, he can't feel the forces acting on it and I suspect it was not launched at the edge but somewhat in the power.
The kite launcher should be making the final decision as to launch or not, regardless of a thumbs up. The thumbs-up should only indicate that the kiter is ready.

I've seen a launcher deny a kiter his thumbs-up signal, it takes courage to over-ride that decision but you could save them from a nasty accident.
I don't know where you have been taught that but I have been taught the opposite, the launcher shouldn't move and it's the kiter that has to walk upwind until the kite isn't flapping any more and he thinks he is in a good position to launch and he gives the thumbs up.
All the launcher should do is check that the lines/bridles aren't tangled and everything looks good from is point of view (other kiters in the way behind the guy being launched by example) then just let go of the kite when he get the thumbs up.
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Re: Why you should be ready to release? That's why...

Postby Dimitrios » Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:28 am

It is definitely the kiter's responsibility make sure he is safe.
Having said that as a fellow kiter i always make sure to assist and align someone that im launching his kite and he is wrongly positioned. I have couple of friends that although they have been kiting for many years their windwindow understanding is unbelievably poor.

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Re: Why you should be ready to release? That's why...

Postby sarc » Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:46 am

Havre wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:11 am
sarc wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:46 am
grigorib wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:01 pm


You can’t compare amount of tension your arm can handle and the pull your body generates. This method won’t work in gusty/lully winds
Self-launch and self-landing are important skills but I consider it unsafe to launch unhooked. Also unsafe for everyone else on the beach. You don’t want to get the beach closed for kiters because people release their stuff through beachgoers.
Yea because having a fully powered deathlooping kite with rider attached mow thru beachgoers is better than having a depowered kite fall thru beachgoers and stop? Neither is optimal but given the choice I would choose the second.
I don't think that is a good description of what will happen. In all my life as a kiter I have never seen a kite deathlooping on the beach (seen videos of course). The volume is hardly big. Neither have I anyone launching like described in the video, but if everyone did so how often would we see someone lose control over their kite? I don't know, but I would have guessed quite frequently. If so it isn't in any way a given what is the safest way to launch.
Hey there I am not arguing or nagging here just want to share, that our community almost lost one experienced kiter on launch due to unstable winds, he hit his head on rocks and was hospitalized for 6 weeks. Myself I broke 1 rib due to deathloop (bridle wrap on launch). A tourist drowned due to deathloop on water in offshore wind. Great that you have never seen one, and I give you my honest wish that you never will, but I have seen several on water and on land, and have been launching 5 years / maybe 2-3000 launches (a few launches per session) with the method in the video and it remains the only way I launch now (even assisted)

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BE_Kiter
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Re: Why you should be ready to release? That's why...

Postby BE_Kiter » Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:51 am

Ahh a Waroo what a nice kite was it! I flew them for 5 years and they can pull a lot be they are also super depowerable.

My 2 cents: he's on a 13 in 20+ knots and he does not seem a heavy kiter. I think he's overpowered and indeed QR should be on his hand when launching in case of...
I'm not saying it's not possible to fly a 13 in that wind, but that needs some experience.

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Re: Why you should be ready to release? That's why...

Postby Havre » Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:12 pm

sarc wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:46 am
Havre wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:11 am
sarc wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:46 am


Yea because having a fully powered deathlooping kite with rider attached mow thru beachgoers is better than having a depowered kite fall thru beachgoers and stop? Neither is optimal but given the choice I would choose the second.
I don't think that is a good description of what will happen. In all my life as a kiter I have never seen a kite deathlooping on the beach (seen videos of course). The volume is hardly big. Neither have I anyone launching like described in the video, but if everyone did so how often would we see someone lose control over their kite? I don't know, but I would have guessed quite frequently. If so it isn't in any way a given what is the safest way to launch.
Hey there I am not arguing or nagging here just want to share, that our community almost lost one experienced kiter on launch due to unstable winds, he hit his head on rocks and was hospitalized for 6 weeks. Myself I broke 1 rib due to deathloop (bridle wrap on launch). A tourist drowned due to deathloop on water in offshore wind. Great that you have never seen one, and I give you my honest wish that you never will, but I have seen several on water and on land, and have been launching 5 years / maybe 2-3000 launches (a few launches per session) with the method in the video and it remains the only way I launch now (even assisted)
I'm not criticizing you for sharing or for launching in that way. I just don't think your description of the pros/cons on the two methods is well balanced.

There will always be anecdotal evidence when it comes to accidents (which often leads to people overestimating the risks - as an example Democrats believe there is a 41% chance an unvaccinated person will get hospitalized if he/she catches Covid - I am guessing people think that because of anecdotal evidence they see on the news etc.). But as you yourself point out there is no risk free option.

And by all means. I would encourage people to test launching in different ways (as long as the wind isn't too strong and the spot isn't crowded - when testing the first time).

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Re: Why you should be ready to release? That's why...

Postby Dimitrios » Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:23 pm

Jesus are you insane?@havre. Mentioning politics and vaccination. Are you actually trying to argue with someone? xD

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Re: Why you should be ready to release? That's why...

Postby Herman » Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:43 pm

Re Be-kiter comment:

This is the situation where I don’t like the mantra of being ready with your hand on the QR. Let’s assume there was nothing wrong with the kite other than overpowered and therefore sensitive to steering input.

He has the top hand on the bar, bottom hand on the qr. Assistant let’s the kite go, rears are a bit tight as overpowered and the top hand bias naturally steers kite up. Because the rider is told to keep a hand on the QR he is too slow to steer with bottom hand to keep kite down. Instead he goes into dither mode!

I still prefer the mindset of total concentration on kite control with a focus on recognising control failure, instant control is in jeopardy fully focus on ejecting - should not even be looking at the kite at this point as it is irrelevant - your eyes should be on the QR imho!
Last edited by Herman on Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why you should be ready to release? That's why...

Postby Havre » Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:53 pm

Dimitrios wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:23 pm
Jesus are you insane?@havre. Mentioning politics and vaccination. Are you actually trying to argue with someone? xD
Haha. No. Just the latest example of how anecdotal evidence "ruins" people's understanding of real risk. And the numbers are from NY Times or Washington Post I believe so that is politically correct enough for everyone to agree on the numbers :lol:

I have tried this myself. Watch a video of a plane crashing right before boarding. It does something about the experience of flying - it is really quite interesting :lol:


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