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Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

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Soleas
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Re: Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Postby Soleas » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:03 am

leeuwen wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:28 am
Soleas wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:21 pm

I landboard in 2-5knots on a 10m foil kite.


I never tried a foil board.
Does it have less friction than a landboard on a hard surface?
The friction while riding is irrelevant, it’s not what decides the low end on a hydrofoil.

Unlike a land board you cannot just step on the board and potentially even give it some starting speed.
You need enough energy from the kite to be able to get on the board and up to foiling speed.
Also just keeping the kite in the air while maneuvering out in to deep water and getting into a starting position will become tricky.
It is relevant on the water start. Yes, kite needs to pull the rider up at the initial waterstart but to be able to go upwind and ride kite needs to be flown at speed all the time. Miss a jybe and it's game over.

I don't push the board to get it going on the landboard I use the kite to start. Kite pulls me to start but to keep going and go upwind I have to keep the speed up.
I can ride in 7-10kn on a twintip and a 15m Soul and I saw that even the 10m Soul has enough pull to get me going in the lightest of wind on the landboard.
I believe a skilled rider on a foilboard can do it in 4kn but.....what for? Just for fun maybe.

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Hawaiis
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Re: Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Postby Hawaiis » Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:42 am

Hydrofoil has taken kiting to another level, a small wave will power the hydrofoil, when there is no wind one can pump against the wave, kite is no longer required.

Regis-de-giens
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Re: Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Postby Regis-de-giens » Sun Nov 21, 2021 11:16 am

leeuwen wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:28 am
The friction while riding is irrelevant, it’s not what decides the low end on a hydrofoil.

Unlike a land board you cannot just step on the board and potentially even give it some starting speed.
You need enough energy from the kite to be able to get on the board and up to foiling speed.
Also just keeping the kite in the air while maneuvering out in to deep water and getting into a starting position will become tricky.
Yes for the kite tricky to keep flying in the air, when getting out of shore and preparing the water start ;

For the rest , I would debate : I am trying to hydrofoil in the lowest wind , as a challenge , for years and selected specialized material for this years after years (extreme light foilkite, very thin long lines, big hydrofoil wing, research on water starts technics, and lot of swimming :-) ° ; today, in what I call 4 knots , the challenge is not only water start (*): in those winds , even with a 18m2 foil kite, I sometimes need to work the kite, even pump during the ride, and I sometime completely loose the planning, even with my 60 kg.

(*) with some technic you can decrease the theoretical energy needed from the kite to get on the board (bent knees at maximum, sink the board by its rear, which pulls you a bit rearward when the foil sinks deeper , which add artificial tension in the kite) ; ok my practice is a bit extreme, but now it happens more and more that I am able to waterstart but not keeping the planning. Which does not happen on a land board since it is "planning" at any low speed.

So friction on hydrofoil is not negligible , and no change to ride in marginal winds with a "small kite", say under 12-15 m2. Should I have a lighter kite now, I would need more than 18m2 ...

One difference with land boarding (or snow kite) is that there is no real lower velocity speed of the board, it keeps a very low friction even if rider at very very small speed ; while when a hydrofoil looses its speed to low, it sinks and friction becomes very high = not easy to manage lulls under 3 knots if their duration exceeds a bundle of seconds ...
Last edited by Regis-de-giens on Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Postby joriws » Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:38 pm

Hawaiis wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:42 am
Hydrofoil has taken kiting to another level, a small wave will power the hydrofoil, when there is no wind one can pump against the wave, kite is no longer required.
Even more remarkable is hf beach start against the waves.. So you don't need a wave to lift off, and pumping unofficial WR is somewhere 6.5minutes on YT videos..

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