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Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

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rnelias
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Re: Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Postby rnelias » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:57 pm

nixmatters wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:44 pm
rnelias wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:15 pm
Ocean Rodeo - Flite A-Series

12m: 2,3kg
14.5m: 2,5kg
17m: 2,6kg

Duotone - Juice DLab

13m: 2,73kg (0,23kg heavier than 14.5m Flite)
15m: 3,07 (0,47kg heavier than 17m Flite)

There must have something wrong or Duotone should learn with Ozone and Ocean Rodeo how to make lightweight kites :D
This makes no sense!

5sq.m of ripstop canopy weigh almost 0,3kg (the weight difference between the 12 and 17m).

Unless the Flite A 12m has some heavier reinforcements, which the 17m doesn't or the 17m has thinner LE and struts, which makes absolutely no sense.

In the article on the ULW project, published in Duotone's own magazine was stated 1,98kg for 13m. Which is obviously doable for a prototype with no reinforcements and a lighter weight canopy ripstop.

But riding in 4knots is a ridiculous claim.
They'd better made it auto-zenith and show how you can park it at 12 o'clock and go for a beer... should the wind drop to 4 knots :lol:
Kauper Maverick 12m weights just 2.79kg 3-struc with standard materials but I suppose it must be inflated to 15 psi :lol:

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Re: Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Postby mr_daruman » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:32 pm

At 4 knots why need a kite??? You look silly, and definitely not fun. The kite is more of a hindrance than anything.
Just pump board ride.

For light wind at 65kg:
With my 12m2 and 1000v(no struts light tube kite) I can do 8 to 10 knots no problem. Anything bigger for kites, I switch to wingfoil.
With a 5.5m2 and 2400 wingfoil and 70L light board that barely floats me, I can do 6 to 8knots easy.
Hence now I ALWAYS go winging in super light wind.

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Re: Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Postby nixmatters » Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:30 pm

rnelias wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:57 pm
...
Kauper Maverick 12m weights just 2.79kg 3-struc with standard materials but I suppose it must be inflated to 15 psi :lol:
I'm not arguing that these weights are not achievable. I know they are and how.
Just pointing out the 300 grams difference stated by OR for same kite model and 5m size difference.

As for the Maverick - thanks for the heads up. I didn't notice they have a V2 and I didn't like the V1 much

Standard materials... yes and no. They are using Contender canopy ripstop and Dacron, both available in lighter weight versions (34gsm canopy and 140gsm dacron). Not sure though if that light weight dacron is suitable for a durable LE.

Btw, how much is the 12m maverick V2? I don't feel like sending them my data to get a personalized offer.

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Re: Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Postby flaps1111 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:59 pm

This is what it looks like when you are riding in less than 6 knots. https://youtu.be/VecffaPAMWM

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Re: Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Postby PullStrings » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:38 pm

Let's just all agree that below 7-8 knots the wind has a mind of it's own

Too many other factors that have nothing to do with the "speed" comes into play

One of them is spring or fall depending on which hemisphere you kite in

The water is cold and the wind is warm = dense power

An other one is ocean upwelling in the heat of summer when the surface water temp drops tremendously in few days with sideshore wind flow

Etc etc...

So putting up a "number" makes no sense...........and 4 knots is one of them

You either can go riding or you can't with the best gear you have in sub 10

Any of you who have ridden light winds for 22 years knows that

When it comes to ultra light at the "same" wind speed you will have three types

Normal.........8 kn pulls like 8kn
Magical.........8 kn pulls like 12kn
Sucker.......8 kn pulls like 4 kn

That last one can only mean one thing
BEER TIME !!!!
:beer:
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Re: Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Postby 14ToeSide » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:48 pm

After all this BULLWASH I may have to sit on my couch with the FLAPS up and have a Cigar and Brandy... :anon: :desperado: :desperado: :desperado:

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Re: Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Postby flaps1111 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:50 pm

PullStrings wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:38 pm
Let's just all agree that below 7-8 knots the wind has a mind of it's own

Too many other factors that have nothing to do with the "speed" comes into play

One of them is spring or fall depending on which hemisphere you kite in

The water is cold and the wind is warm = dense power

An other one is ocean upwelling in the heat of summer when the surface water temp drops tremendously in few days with sideshore wind flow

Etc etc...

So putting up a "number" makes no sense...........and 4 knots is one of them

You either can go riding or you can't with the best gear you have in sub 10

Any of you who have ridden light winds for 22 years knows that

When it comes to ultra light at the "same" wind speed you will have three types

Normal.........8 kn pulls like 8kn
Magical.........8 kn pulls like 12kn
Sucker.......8 kn pulls like 4 kn

That last one can only mean one thing
BEER TIME !!!!
:beer:
22 years ago there were neither hydofoils nor light kites, in fact 10 years ago there was nothing like what we sail today. For any hydrofoiler 8-10 knots is like 14-16 knots for TT with 12m.
6-7 knots with the wing and kite combination is possible with some experience and still fun.
4-7 is what I see as the limit and is more of a challenge than fun.

For me 85 kg dry
6-7 knts... 14m.
8-10 knts.. 12m.
10-12knts.. 9m.
12-16 knts.. 6m.
16-20 knts.. 5m.
18-25 knts...4m.

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Re: Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Postby alpaia » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:46 pm

I don't see the point in arguing about exact knots limit and precise kite weight / sqm, as someone said a lot depends on other parameters.
Like very unsteady wind on a montain lake near home some very experienced foilers end up swimming back, on the atlantic coast steady sea breeze just 2 loops they are flying no end. Same average wind speed.

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Re: Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Postby Daversj » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:51 am

Its like arguing would you rather stub your toe or bend the nail backwards. They both suck. No thanks

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Re: Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Postby PullStrings » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:18 am

@Flaps 1111
Ralf said 4 knots
He did not say what you said 4 to 7 knots limit

Maybe your 7 knots is 90% of the time
And it lulls to 4 knots 10% of the time

So you just coast through at that moment

See how numbers can be manipulated

Now if it was 50%/50% exactly it would mean you are riding in 5.5 knots

But i doubt that very much

No way to really prove anything number wise

What counts is if you are having fun and beating everyone else on the water with ultra light wind gear

Well do you beat them all ?
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