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Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

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bragnouff
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Re: Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Postby bragnouff » Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:15 pm

dave1986 wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:41 pm

I disagree. A landboard (even on hard compacted sand) has significantly more drag than a high performance hydrofoil on water... your analogy isn't right at all. A closer comparison would be a skateboard on smooth tarmac.
The big thing missing in that comparison is that you first need to haul your ass out of the water over the board, so you need a peak of power sufficient enough to do that. That tends to be THE limiting factor for hydrofoiling in light wind. Only after that critical stage will glide and drag considerations come into play. On a landboard or skateboard, you have the immense luxury of already standing up, ability to do a few steps backwards to increase tension, etc...

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Re: Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Postby edt » Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:27 pm

If the kite doesn't fall down you will be able to hydrofoil. The exact kite size or line length can vary. I'm not one to call someone out for light wind claims. Just let it be that's my motto. The high wind claims are more suspicious. You know when someone says it's 50 knots but it looks like 30.

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Re: Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Postby fernmanus » Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:50 am

. New for 2022 we are proud to offer one of our designs from 2012 only now all materials have been reduced in thickness by 30%-50% and we are passing the savings in weight and money on to you our loyal customers who will not complain when the kite explodes when tomahawked because the price was so affordable in the first place you can just buy another one!”
brilliant idea. Problem is that a good percentage of buyers would whine and complain on this forum about how fragile the kites are. Plus, I can just imagine the outcry over disposable kites.

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Re: Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Postby bragnouff » Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:11 am

fernmanus wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:50 am
. New for 2022 we are proud to offer one of our designs from 2012 only now all materials have been reduced in thickness by 30%-50% and we are passing the savings in weight and money on to you our loyal customers who will not complain when the kite explodes when tomahawked because the price was so affordable in the first place you can just buy another one!”
brilliant idea. Problem is that a good percentage of buyers would whine and complain on this forum about how fragile the kites are. Plus, I can just imagine the outcry over disposable kites.
But isn't the material thickness a big component in the way a kite can handle high pressure? Manufacturers don't purposefully select the heaviest Dacron available for their structural inflatable parts, I assume they pick the right material with the sufficient strength and desired stiffness for their design, within considerations of price of course. No one wants a spongy kite, even if it's cheaper. You could keep some stiffness by making the tubes bigger, but that involves more material, negating some of your weight savings, and less aerodynamic performance.
Reducing the material thickness by 30-50% wouldn't make the kite 30-50% more affordable. And even at an hypothetical half price, that doesn't really bring it into "disposable" territory either.

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Re: Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Postby Greenturtle » Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:52 am

the minimum weight of regular dacron/bladder/canopy materials needed throughout to hold pressure be stiff and fly awesome is a lot less than is currently offered as there is pretzels and bombs to consider and everyone wants the kite to survive that! But if you are like me and never crash your kite hardly ever anymore, much less badly, and always baby it well as possible during the ground-contact part etc, then it doesn’t need to be pretzel bomb kook newb proof and can totally be the lightest floatiest dopest dreamiest lei ever offered to the public and all accomplished with standard low tech cheap(er) material, for sure, especially for all this sub 15kt stuff and fluffy underpowered low impact freeride foiling in “4” knots. Light in the air and light on the wallet. Sigh
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Re: Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Postby dave1986 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:50 am

bragnouff wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:15 pm
dave1986 wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:41 pm

I disagree. A landboard (even on hard compacted sand) has significantly more drag than a high performance hydrofoil on water... your analogy isn't right at all. A closer comparison would be a skateboard on smooth tarmac.
The big thing missing in that comparison is that you first need to haul your ass out of the water over the board, so you need a peak of power sufficient enough to do that. That tends to be THE limiting factor for hydrofoiling in light wind. Only after that critical stage will glide and drag considerations come into play. On a landboard or skateboard, you have the immense luxury of already standing up, ability to do a few steps backwards to increase tension, etc...
That's why specialist equipment (high volume board and large high aspect hydrofoil), and expert skill level would be required to make 4 knots work. I think it would work if everything is perfect, but probably not realistic for standard equipment and standard skill level.

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Re: Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Postby Onda » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:09 am

Whatever lowest wind speed is doable: It will be no fun at all for any average Joe, that´s for sure.
I´m totally not interested in 4, 5 or 7 kts foiling, even if it would be possible for me. So boring and fickle!
I like to watch a race pro though, going warp-speed in no wind. Fascinating!

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Re: Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Postby flaps1111 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:12 am

Doutone dlab 15m= 3.07 kg
Airush Ultra v2 14m= 3.06 kg

I can ride with 6-7 knots maximum easily with a big surf wing (1550 cm2) and my Ultra on flat water ( with choppi will be dificult) . I weight 85kg dry .The Ultra hangs in 5 knots I'm sure a light rider can lower at least one knot and ride before me.

Juice Dlab= 3000 euros
Airush Ultra=1200 euros ( 890 my kite 2 hand)

If Airush could use Aluula will be the perfect ultra light wind kite. IMO. ( perhaps a 13m will be perfect).

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Re: Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Postby pmaggie » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:27 am

IMO, it's not only a question of how many knots but also how steady is the wind. I can ride in 6/7 knots without problems with my FS Speed 5 21 and a big TT, but the 6 knots must be STEADY, not something going up and down from 4 to 8, because in 4 knots a little mistake is enough to send the sail in the drink. Ten minutes and it's the end of the game, pack everything and swim home.

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Re: Ralf Groesel and Bullshit Light Wind Claims

Postby Baptiste_FR » Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:29 am

flaps1111 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:12 am
If Airush could use Aluula will be the perfect ultra light wind kite. IMO. ( perhaps a 13m will be perfect).
Airush is launching a new "Ultra" with their own light material from Ho'okipa :
https://www.thekiteboarder.com/2021/09/ ... -previews/
It seems to be very close from Aluula.
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