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Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

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LePhasme
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Re: Duotone rebel sls 2022 launch

Postby LePhasme » Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:52 am

Jose wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:42 am
mkNY wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:35 pm
For some reason the Rebel SLS only lost ~100g per size (~3.5%), while all other SLS kites lost ~300g (~10%) per size. Wonder why?
Because Duotone use light weight dacron, same as mono.

Rebel 2021 12 m 3,41kg vs 3,75kg 2020 less 340 gr 9%
Rebel 2021 9m 2,96kg vs 3,25kg 2020 less 290 gr 8,9%

Rebel sls 12mts 3,37kg less 40gr 1,17% (2021) 10% (2020) but increase price 19,5% :angryfire:
Rebel sls 9mts 2,89kg less 70gr 2,3%(2021) 11% (2020) but increase price 21,7% :angryfire:

Now we need wait for reviews to compare rebel 2021 with rebel sls
I think the price increase is linked to the high demand at the moment more than the new material in the SLS case.

I wish there would be some kind of standardized testing platform for kites so we could have reliable data to compare the lift, turning speed, low end etc, because in the end people review is good to have but a bit unreliable.

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Havre
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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby Havre » Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:39 am

Kites are not priced according to "cost+" (meaning there is cost + a fixed margin). If it had been we would have seen kites varying a lot more in prices than they do (even if of course the shops might sell kites at more or less the same price level even if they pay the OEM's more/less).

Generally speaking "new" stuff you pay a premium. Regardless of how much it costs to produce.

And as LePhasme points out - demand matters - it would be rather silly to sell a kite for €1500 if it gets sold out in 2 weeks. Then you try to sell it for €1800 instead - or more. In some cases that even increases demand as price is seen as an indicator of quality. I have friends who have a fairly random "import business" as a hobby and just for fun for certain things they have done things like 10x the price (adding a zero) just to see what happens - and occasionally that have increased sales (not suggesting charging €15000 for a kite works, but adding a couple of hundred euros might work).

It will be interesting to see what happens with the industry. I could see it, at least for a time, ending up being two tiered. Where the "traditional" material is priced cheaper and "new" material goes at a premium. It would make sense to segment the market that way. Some people that buy a new kite for €1500 would gladly pay €2000 for a new one - and some that today are paying €1200 for a second hand kite might go for a new one if the "traditional" kites are becoming slightly cheaper.
Last edited by Havre on Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kemperman
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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby Kemperman » Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:57 am

Wow. The new Rebel SLS 9m cost 1959 euro's in the Netherlands. Please give me a heavier and cheaper Rebel.
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Ice101
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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby Ice101 » Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:25 am

A 9m kite from factory is approximately £350 addition of new materials probably 10% hence retail addition 20% as per figures someone wrote above so that’s about right rest is profit baby! for the fat cat owner. Minus a bit of shipping perhaps.

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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby Blackened » Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:52 am

Havre wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:31 am
duddd wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:22 am
Havre wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:01 am
Arguably XR7 and the Orbit are the two best performing "big air" kites for advanced riders while the Rebel and Edge are significantly lighter, but less common to see winning KOTA, Woo leaderboards etc.
North has only 2 entries in the top 50 all time Woo leaderboard. The Orbit doesn't really jump that high (compared to xr's) and i'm not sure why people keep saying that the Orbit is a great booster kite.
Indeed, Jesse was using the Orbit when he won KOTA, but arguably Jesse could win that competition on any kite

XR6-7 has probably around 30 entries in the top 50 and the rebel around 10.
Whatever. Doesn't change my point - being that a "heavy" kite like the XR (regardless if you agree on the Orbit or not) is "outperforming" lighter kites in that segment.
100g weight will affect the performance of the kite in 50kn about 0.0001%. If you're really worried about saving weight for boosting, have a big shit before your session. It'll help more. The main benefit from these newer materials is the stiffness it provides to hold shape when overpowered. There is no way Aaron is jumping 34m on a 9m older Dice - it would've folded like soggy spaghetti.

In terms of overall jumping performance, in my experience riding the XR6, Edge v10, Rebel '21, and Orbit:
1. XR
2. Edge v10 (with some skill)
3. Rebel '21
4. ...
X. Orbit
The Orbit is not a pure boosting kite. Does it boost well? Yes, but it will never compete with the top 3 without a redesign.

As for KOTA, the judging criteria is different to what we're seeing today in the BAKL. If you put that style scoring against Jesse, he doesn't beat the new crew doing high, soft kiteloops with maximum hangtime for boardoffs/rotations. The only way he wins is handlepasses for variety. I'm very interested to see how KOTA is scored this year. Hopefully The Megaloop sticks with extreme yank and kite height, which benefits the old guard.
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1234567Simon
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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby 1234567Simon » Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:15 am

12m
2200 Euro…. Uhhhh yeahhhh!

Not for me …. Sorry….
Even if I wait another 3 years and get a good deal with 50% discount ….. still a lot….

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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby cor » Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:29 am

Ice101 wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:25 am
A 9m kite from factory is approximately £350 addition of new materials probably 10% hence retail addition 20% as per figures someone wrote above so that’s about right rest is profit baby! for the fat cat owner. Minus a bit of shipping perhaps.
Sure. For a company like Boards&More, there are no costs for product development, payrolls, marketing, office spaces, taxes, insurances, etc. As someone who works in pricing, I just love these naive oversimplifications.

I do agree that this Kite is very expensive. But as long as people buy them, why make them cheaper? I am sure I will see plenty of Rebel SLS soon at the spots.
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nixmatters
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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby nixmatters » Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:15 pm

Havre wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:39 am
Kites are not priced according to "cost+" (meaning there is cost + a fixed margin). If it had been we would have seen kites varying a lot more in prices than they do (even if of course the shops might sell kites at more or less the same price level even if they pay the OEM's more/less).

Generally speaking "new" stuff you pay a premium. Regardless of how much it costs to produce.

And as LePhasme points out - demand matters - it would be rather silly to sell a kite for €1500 if it gets sold out in 2 weeks. Then you try to sell it for €1800 instead - or more. In some cases that even increases demand as price is seen as an indicator of quality. I have friends who have a fairly random "import business" as a hobby and just for fun for certain things they have done things like 10x the price (adding a zero) just to see what happens - and occasionally that have increased sales (not suggesting charging €15000 for a kite works, but adding a couple of hundred euros might work).

It will be interesting to see what happens with the industry. I could see it, at least for a time, ending up being two tiered. Where the "traditional" material is priced cheaper and "new" material goes at a premium. It would make sense to segment the market that way. Some people that buy a new kite for €1500 would gladly pay €2000 for a new one - and some that today are paying €12000 for a second hand kite might go for a new one if the "traditional" kites are becoming slightly cheaper.
You got it right! It's about segmenting the market to maximize both share and profit.
Duotone have been working on this strategy since few years and are now launching it full on, both in kites and boards.
We know well that there are plenty of people in this sport (as in any other) who would pay the premium as long as the claims behind the novel materials, technology and performance are well supported and do not make them look stupid for paying that premium.

I find this strategy positive for the sport long term.

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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby jedi1 » Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:43 pm

nixmatters wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:15 pm

You got it right! It's about segmenting the market to maximize both share and profit.
Duotone have been working on this strategy since few years and are now launching it full on, both in kites and boards.
We know well that there are plenty of people in this sport (as in any other) who would pay the premium as long as the claims behind the novel materials, technology and performance are well supported and do not make them look stupid for paying that premium.

I find this strategy positive for the sport long term.
But do we a confirmation if there will be a regular Rebel? It disappeared from the webpage.

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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby nixmatters » Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:08 pm

jedi1 wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:43 pm
nixmatters wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:15 pm

You got it right! It's about segmenting the market to maximize both share and profit.
Duotone have been working on this strategy since few years and are now launching it full on, both in kites and boards.
We know well that there are plenty of people in this sport (as in any other) who would pay the premium as long as the claims behind the novel materials, technology and performance are well supported and do not make them look stupid for paying that premium.

I find this strategy positive for the sport long term.
But do we a confirmation if there will be a regular Rebel? It disappeared from the webpage.
Nope, only SLS


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