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Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

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Havre
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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby Havre » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:43 pm

Faxie wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:53 pm
Havre wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:01 am
It would have been cool to know more about a) the real benefit of losing weight (how much it matters) b) the trade-offs both in terms of durability and performance (is it necessarily so that less weight means "better" performance for all types of kites? I guess not).

XR6 and 7 are according to Green Hat among the heavier kites around, but also recognized as one of the better performing ones (in that segment). Arguably XR7 and the Orbit are the two best performing "big air" kites for advanced riders while the Rebel and Edge are significantly lighter, but less common to see winning KOTA, Woo leaderboards etc.
In the Netherlands I see a LOT of Edges in the leaderboards. More than the rest. Comparable to XR's. Rebels a bit less, comparable to Pivots. Orbits not so much. My guess it that it mostly matters where you're at.

For the KOTA riders, it all about sponsoring. I don't think it would matter that much to them if they were riding XR or Rebel.
I agree that it wasn't a very scientific statement. I have no clue as to the volume these brands sell either, but I don't think it is controversial to say that the XR has done well globally on those leaderboards. Well enough to at least indicate that weight for those kites isn't necessarily that important for their performance in terms of jumping high.

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Re: Duotone rebel sls 2022 launch

Postby nixmatters » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:21 pm

Faxie wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:19 pm
nixmatters wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:54 pm
mkNY wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:35 pm
For some reason the Rebel SLS only lost ~100g per size (~3.5%), while all other SLS kites lost ~300g (~10%) per size. Wonder why?
You obviously haven't listened carefully the claims in the launch video.

PENTA TX... 5 times the strength of dacron and significantly dropping the overall weight by 15%...

Overall weight my a....
You should ask the marketing department which overall weight they are referring to...

I couldn't find Edge weights, but my guess is those are lighter per size.
Obviously the kite's overall weight. Very clearly stated here:


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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby Faxie » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:44 pm

Havre wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:43 pm
Faxie wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:53 pm
Havre wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:01 am
It would have been cool to know more about a) the real benefit of losing weight (how much it matters) b) the trade-offs both in terms of durability and performance (is it necessarily so that less weight means "better" performance for all types of kites? I guess not).

XR6 and 7 are according to Green Hat among the heavier kites around, but also recognized as one of the better performing ones (in that segment). Arguably XR7 and the Orbit are the two best performing "big air" kites for advanced riders while the Rebel and Edge are significantly lighter, but less common to see winning KOTA, Woo leaderboards etc.
In the Netherlands I see a LOT of Edges in the leaderboards. More than the rest. Comparable to XR's. Rebels a bit less, comparable to Pivots. Orbits not so much. My guess it that it mostly matters where you're at.

For the KOTA riders, it all about sponsoring. I don't think it would matter that much to them if they were riding XR or Rebel.
I agree that it wasn't a very scientific statement. I have no clue as to the volume these brands sell either, but I don't think it is controversial to say that the XR has done well globally on those leaderboards. Well enough to at least indicate that weight for those kites isn't necessarily that important for their performance in terms of jumping high.
That's true. I think weight starts to matter under 20 knots. Above that, the power and speed generated is too high to really influence the weight induced penalty in response and upwind ability.

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Re: Duotone rebel sls 2022 launch

Postby Faxie » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:47 pm

nixmatters wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:21 pm
Faxie wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:19 pm
nixmatters wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:54 pm


You obviously haven't listened carefully the claims in the launch video.

PENTA TX... 5 times the strength of dacron and significantly dropping the overall weight by 15%...

Overall weight my a....
You should ask the marketing department which overall weight they are referring to...

I couldn't find Edge weights, but my guess is those are lighter per size.
Obviously the kite's overall weight. Very clearly stated here:

Looking at the chart posted earlier, it's 10% for the 15m and less for the 5m.

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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby Jose » Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:05 pm

nothing2seehere wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:38 pm
Jose wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:03 pm
Duotone Rebel official weights 2020, 2021, 2022

2020 Normal dacron
2021 Light dacron
2022 Penta TX less - 50 gr vs light draconrebel_2020.JPGRebel_2021.PNGRebel_sls_2022.JPG
Out of interest where did you find the 2021 Rebel weights from? Only asking because the 5 strut rebel weights are lighter than the regular Evo weights (and that's with 2 extra struts)!
Duotone published later at own site the weights of Rebel 2021.

I have rebel 9 & 12 2021 and I weighed, you can see at viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2408055&hilit=any+r ... 1&start=20

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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby rnelias » Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:29 pm

Faxie wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:53 pm
For the KOTA riders, it all about sponsoring. I don't think it would matter that much to them if they were riding XR or Rebel.
Ok... but I've always thought weird that Duotone team riders never use their big air kite on the big air competitions... Aaron, Reno, Tom, Lasse ...they usually prefer the Dice.

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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby cor » Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:31 pm

rnelias wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:29 pm
Ok... but I've always thought weird that Duotone team riders never use their big air kite on the big air competitions... Aaron, Reno, Tom, Lasse ...they usually prefer the Dice.
The Rebel easily outperforms the Dice in jump height and hang time. But judges at Kota will not only look for jump height. The rating is much more complicated. It´s also about horizontal distance travelled and control of high moves. For loops, the dice is more extreme than the Rebel and it´s also much quicker. That´s why everyone at Kota prefers the Dice.

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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby McLovin » Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:41 am

Finally, about a year late... I thought last year's color's were tough - grey and pink? Ouch...

Mc

:dance:

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Re: Duotone rebel sls 2022 launch

Postby Jose » Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:42 am

mkNY wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:35 pm
For some reason the Rebel SLS only lost ~100g per size (~3.5%), while all other SLS kites lost ~300g (~10%) per size. Wonder why?
Because Duotone use light weight dacron, same as mono.

Rebel 2021 12 m 3,41kg vs 3,75kg 2020 less 340 gr 9%
Rebel 2021 9m 2,96kg vs 3,25kg 2020 less 290 gr 8,9%

Rebel sls 12mts 3,37kg less 40gr 1,17% (2021) 10% (2020) but increase price 19,5% :angryfire:
Rebel sls 9mts 2,89kg less 70gr 2,3%(2021) 11% (2020) but increase price 21,7% :angryfire:

Now we need wait for reviews to compare rebel 2021 with rebel sls
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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022

Postby Jose » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:03 am

cor wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:31 pm
rnelias wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:29 pm
Ok... but I've always thought weird that Duotone team riders never use their big air kite on the big air competitions... Aaron, Reno, Tom, Lasse ...they usually prefer the Dice.
The Rebel easily outperforms the Dice in jump height and hang time. But judges at Kota will not only look for jump height. The rating is much more complicated. It´s also about horizontal distance travelled and control of high moves. For loops, the dice is more extreme than the Rebel and it´s also much quicker. That´s why everyone at Kota prefers the Dice.
At Cold Hawaii Games at Denmark with extreme conditions 2021

1º Fone Whaley 2º Duotone (rebel 2021) Casati 3º Duotone (dice) Walker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvDpe9bYE7Y


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