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Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:01 am
by Havre
It would have been cool to know more about a) the real benefit of losing weight (how much it matters) b) the trade-offs both in terms of durability and performance (is it necessarily so that less weight means "better" performance for all types of kites? I guess not).
XR6 and 7 are according to Green Hat among the heavier kites around, but also recognized as one of the better performing ones (in that segment). Arguably XR7 and the Orbit are the two best performing "big air" kites for advanced riders while the Rebel and Edge are significantly lighter, but less common to see winning KOTA, Woo leaderboards etc.
Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:03 am
by Havre
I was trying to figure out what they have done with the shape, but based on these pictures I cannot see that they have changed anything (apparently they have though - even if I can't see it).
I removed some panels etc. placing them on top of each other, but I still couldn't see any difference in shape. Look identical to me. Would be cool if someone could point out what I miss.
Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:22 am
by duddd
Havre wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:01 am
Arguably XR7 and the Orbit are the two best performing "big air" kites for advanced riders while the Rebel and Edge are significantly lighter, but less common to see winning KOTA, Woo leaderboards etc.
North has only 2 entries in the top 50 all time Woo leaderboard. The Orbit doesn't really jump that high (compared to xr's) and i'm not sure why people keep saying that the Orbit is a great booster kite.
Indeed, Jesse was using the Orbit when he won KOTA, but arguably Jesse could win that competition on any kite
XR6-7 has probably around 30 entries in the top 50 and the rebel around 10.
Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:31 am
by Havre
duddd wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:22 am
Havre wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:01 am
Arguably XR7 and the Orbit are the two best performing "big air" kites for advanced riders while the Rebel and Edge are significantly lighter, but less common to see winning KOTA, Woo leaderboards etc.
North has only 2 entries in the top 50 all time Woo leaderboard. The Orbit doesn't really jump that high (compared to xr's) and i'm not sure why people keep saying that the Orbit is a great booster kite.
Indeed, Jesse was using the Orbit when he won KOTA, but arguably Jesse could win that competition on any kite
XR6-7 has probably around 30 entries in the top 50 and the rebel around 10.
Whatever. Doesn't change my point - being that a "heavy" kite like the XR (regardless if you agree on the Orbit or not) is "outperforming" lighter kites in that segment.
Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:57 am
by rnelias
duddd wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:22 am
Havre wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:01 am
Arguably XR7 and the Orbit are the two best performing "big air" kites for advanced riders while the Rebel and Edge are significantly lighter, but less common to see winning KOTA, Woo leaderboards etc.
North has only 2 entries in the top 50 all time Woo leaderboard. The Orbit doesn't really jump that high (compared to xr's) and i'm not sure why people keep saying that the Orbit is a great booster kite.
Indeed, Jesse was using the Orbit when he won KOTA, but arguably Jesse could win that competition on any kite
XR6-7 has probably around 30 entries in the top 50 and the rebel around 10.
It's because most of the Duotone team riders prefer Dice instead of Rebel for big air
Aaron Hadlow has the second best score on history of Woo using Dice.
Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:38 pm
by nothing2seehere
Jose wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:03 pm
Duotone Rebel official weights 2020, 2021, 2022
2020 Normal dacron
2021 Light dacron
2022 Penta TX less - 50 gr vs light draconrebel_2020.JPGRebel_2021.PNGRebel_sls_2022.JPG
Out of interest where did you find the 2021 Rebel weights from? Only asking because the 5 strut rebel weights are lighter than the regular Evo weights (and that's with 2 extra struts)!
Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:37 pm
by jedi1
Havre wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:31 am
Whatever. Doesn't change my point - being that a "heavy" kite like the XR (regardless if you agree on the Orbit or not) is "outperforming" lighter kites in that segment.
I don't think anyone would rate a kite performance based solely on weight. Core also markets weight reduction in XR7 kite, compared to XR6.
Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:53 pm
by Faxie
Havre wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:01 am
It would have been cool to know more about a) the real benefit of losing weight (how much it matters) b) the trade-offs both in terms of durability and performance (is it necessarily so that less weight means "better" performance for all types of kites? I guess not).
XR6 and 7 are according to Green Hat among the heavier kites around, but also recognized as one of the better performing ones (in that segment). Arguably XR7 and the Orbit are the two best performing "big air" kites for advanced riders while the Rebel and Edge are significantly lighter, but less common to see winning KOTA, Woo leaderboards etc.
In the Netherlands I see a LOT of Edges in the leaderboards. More than the rest. Comparable to XR's. Rebels a bit less, comparable to Pivots. Orbits not so much. My guess it that it mostly matters where you're at.
For the KOTA riders, it all about sponsoring. I don't think it would matter that much to them if they were riding XR or Rebel.
Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:54 pm
by Faxie
Havre wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:03 am
Rebel vs Rebel.png
I was trying to figure out what they have done with the shape, but based on these pictures I cannot see that they have changed anything (apparently they have though - even if I can't see it).
I removed some panels etc. placing them on top of each other, but I still couldn't see any difference in shape. Look identical to me. Would be cool if someone could point out what I miss.
I did the same for XR6 and 7, didn't see a difference other than a tiny different bridle. There could be some minor spanwise aoa tweaks.
Re: Duotone Rebel SLS 2022
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:56 pm
by Faxie
duddd wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:22 am
Havre wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:01 am
Arguably XR7 and the Orbit are the two best performing "big air" kites for advanced riders while the Rebel and Edge are significantly lighter, but less common to see winning KOTA, Woo leaderboards etc.
North has only 2 entries in the top 50 all time Woo leaderboard. The Orbit doesn't really jump that high (compared to xr's) and i'm not sure why people keep saying that the Orbit is a great booster kite.
Indeed, Jesse was using the Orbit when he won KOTA, but arguably Jesse could win that competition on any kite
XR6-7 has probably around 30 entries in the top 50 and the rebel around 10.
Marketing. Scouting. Some brands do it better than others, and once you have a reputation and the ball starts rolling... just look at the Pivot. Nobody cared about that kite untill Langeree went big on it.