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please rate the 3 biggest (wider) wind range LEI kite today

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Archer77
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please rate the 3 biggest (wider) wind range LEI kite today

Postby Archer77 » Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:25 pm

Hey there!

I'm trying to understand if exist a kite category that give consistently wider wind range, or if mostly Newer kite have more wind range independently from the type ( Delta boosting, hybrid C cross discipline...)

(wind range "at the bar" not considering the trim)

perhaps for what I understood the Ozone Edge (V10) is for sure one with the wider wind range in the last years, but reading magazine like KWMag they reviewed the Bandit XV (2022) like the wider wind range kite that they have ever tested...

please if you can, tell if is just your opinion based on opinion exchange, or if you tried many kites, or if you work as kite designer (and you are very acknowledged)

Best
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Re: please rate the 3 biggest(wider) wind range LEI kite today

Postby Regis-de-giens » Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:36 pm

To me the "old" genetrix Hydra has an enormous wind range. Heavy kite and not agile, but a light Weight Friend, 60 kg, was using the 7m up to 55 knots with still comfort margin.
So, one of the best choice if you only consider the wind range and safety in high winds (and high jumps)
Last edited by Regis-de-giens on Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: please rate the 3 biggest(wider) wind range LEI kite today

Postby edt » Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:39 pm

wind range is more about the rider than the kite. but if i had to pick one kite, maybe the flysurfer soul
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Re: please rate the 3 biggest(wider) wind range LEI kite today

Postby Archer77 » Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:00 pm

Regis-de-giens wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:36 pm
To me the "old" genetrix Hydra has an enormous wind range. Heavy kite and not agile, but a light Weight Friend, 60 kg, was using the 7m up to 55 knots with still comfort margin.
So, one of the best choice if you only consider the wind range and safety in high winds (and high jumps)
thank you Regis, is for sure something unique, unfortunately not produced from some years... but good to know

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Re: please rate the 3 biggest(wider) wind range LEI kite today

Postby Archer77 » Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:02 pm

edt wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:39 pm
wind range is more about the rider than the kite. but if i had to pick one kite, maybe the flysurfer soul
thank you Edt, I know foil kite have a big advantage but was looking among the inflatable world

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Re: please rate the 3 biggest(wider) wind range LEI kite today

Postby Havre » Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:14 pm

It is a very interesting question, but I'm not sure how many would have tested many of these kites enough to really tell? You kind of have to ride kite X in 15 knots and 25 knots (as an example) to get a feel for the range. Then you got to ride kite Y under the same conditions. I can see quite a few having tested a couple of kites like that, but not many.

I haven't ridden that many different kites lately. And I have never tested this very scientifically, but my subjective evaluation is that a 13m Rebel has a bit wider wind range than my 12m Enduro. As an example - and as expected I guess. But I wouldn't say the difference is enormous. The Rebel I can use with some knots lower than my Enduro, but at least the 13m Rebel (2019) is quite a beast to handle in the top range. I can ride my 12m Enduro in quite a lot higher winds than the 13m Rebel. So total wind range isn't that different - as far as I can tell. I could imagine that in the smaller sizes the Rebel would have in % a bit more significant bigger wind range, but I don't know.

Funny thing with Ozone is that the Enduro is listed on their homepage with a bigger wind range than the Edge.

I'll move away from 7-9-12-17 (never used the 7m anyway) to 9-13 for next season. So really hoping the Edge v11 will have a slightly bigger windrange than my current Enduros.
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Re: please rate the 3 biggest(wider) wind range LEI kite today

Postby edt » Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:18 pm

I think it's mostly the rider to be honest. Go look at the king of the air guys they fly 10 meter kites in 40 knots, and it's not the kite giving them that extra top end range. Rebel, Orbit, Pivot, Torch, doesn't matter, it's how you ride that gives you top end range. I've ridden at least 100 kites I think, and a rider with excellent skills will get more range out of a 2003 Fuel than an intermediate rider using the 2021 Orbit.

The place you get all this extra range is the top end. There's nothing a pro rider can do about the low end, if there's not enough wind, he'll be the same as you or me and won't be able to go upwind. At the top, though, that's where you get the extra range.

Take those wind range guides with a grain of salt.

Havre's point is a good one. The Enduro and Edge on paper have similar wind range, but for the same size kite the Edge has much better low end, while the enduro has much better high end. Yet that's just on paper. At a big air event a good rider might take a 10m edge out in 40 knots while someone who is slightly less advanced will be overpowered with the 10m enduro in 25 knots. There's just too much variation that is caused by how the kiter rides. And what is more, the Enduro is a 3 strut kite so that 10m will start to buckle in 45 knots while the 10m edge will still hold its shape because it's a 5 strut kite. I mean the top end speed means nothing really. How high wind you want to take that kite is up to you, not the kite.
Last edited by edt on Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: please rate the 3 biggest(wider) wind range LEI kite today

Postby leeuwen » Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:30 pm

If you want more range without trimming a kite get a bar with a longer throw.
My bar can go up to 120cm, problem solved.

On a more serious note the question has many aspects and forget about not using trim.
Why would you not use the trim? Its there for a reason. I'd rather use some trim to get a well behaved kite then have a kite without trim that behaves worse.
Also what you consider usable wind range can highly depend on user skill, weight, application, taste and acceptance of annoying behavior like flutter or even deforming.

To add more to the practical examples:
On a hydrofoil board with a bar with plenty bar throw I can probably make most kites work in near double the windrange of what most people would be able to do on a twintip.
Doesn't mean it would be a great experience though.
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Re: please rate the 3 biggest(wider) wind range LEI kite today

Postby Archer77 » Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:57 pm

Havre wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:14 pm
It is a very interesting question, but I'm not sure how many would have tested many of these kites enough to really tell? You kind of have to ride kite X in 15 knots and 25 knots (as an example) to get a feel for the range. Then you got to ride kite Y under the same conditions. I can see quite a few having tested a couple of kites like that, but not many.

I haven't ridden that many different kites lately. And I have never tested this very scientifically, but my subjective evaluation is that a 13m Rebel has a bit wider wind range than my 12m Enduro. As an example - and as expected I guess. But I wouldn't say the difference is enormous. The Rebel I can use with some knots lower than my Enduro, but at least the 13m Rebel (2019) is quite a beast to handle in the top range. I can ride my 12m Enduro in quite a lot higher winds than the 13m Rebel. So total wind range isn't that different - as far as I can tell. I could imagine that in the smaller sizes the Rebel would have in % a bit more significant bigger wind range, but I don't know.

Funny thing with Ozone is that the Enduro is listed on their homepage with a bigger wind range than the Edge.

I'll move away from 7-9-12-17 (never used the 7m anyway) to 9-13 for next season. So really hoping the Edge v11 will have a slightly bigger windrange than my current Enduros.
yes Havre good point, too much complex and relative to make correct comparatives... I didn't thought about when doing the question...

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Re: please rate the 3 biggest(wider) wind range LEI kite today

Postby rnelias » Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:59 pm

The best wind range, at least on paper/design, will be for the kites with larger AR and more flat profile, thus, it would be for the 5-structs LEI options. Ozone Edge, Duotone Rebel, Core XR, etc...

why on paper? Because these kites are design to behave more like actual wings than a "bag of air" and would cover better the whole wind window. The perfect/theoretical wind window is 1/4 of a sphere and kites that can produce lift even when they're sitting right at the edge of the wind window have advantage over kites that can only pull us when dived deep in the wind window (like a "bag of air"). C-kites, for instance, usually have poor wind range.

If the question could include RAM kites, the foil racing kites should be included, of course
Last edited by rnelias on Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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